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debian-user-digest Digest V2007 #1838

From: <debian-user-digest-request(at)lists.debian.org>
Date: Sun Jun 24 2007 - 21:39:16 EDT


Content-Type: text/plain

debian-user-digest Digest Volume 2007 : Issue 1838

Today's Topics: 

  Re: lenny: dri stopped working (nvid  [ "David Fox"  ]
  Re: Xorg crashes when playing video   [ Mathias Brodala  ]
  mail server for offline system        [ Owen Heisler  ]
  Nvidia Card - nvidia driver or nv ?   [ Alex Samad  ]
  Re: mail server for offline system    [ Hans du Plooy  ]
  Re: Memory leaks and swap             [ "Karl E. Jorgensen"  ]
  Re: Server keeps freezing up          [ "Justin Hartman"  ]
  Re: how to install ntfs-3g from etch  [ baldyeti  ]
  Re: Server keeps freezing up          [ Till Wimmer  ]
  Re: Server keeps freezing up          [ Till Wimmer  ]
  Re: hddtemp value                     [ Owen Heisler  ]
  Re: apt-caher or approx?              [ Roberto =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=2E_S=E1nch ]
  Re: xterm hanging                     [ Thomas Dickey  ]
  [SOLVED]: Ethernet RJ-45 Not Working  [ TW  ]

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:56:44 -0700
From: "David Fox" <dfox94085@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: lenny: dri stopped working (nvidia) Message-ID: <359a3c580706241356r4c5b7d07u58903367be16251b@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

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On 6/24/07, Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@icfo.es> wrote:
>
>
> First of all, I would quickly try if the crash on shutdown goes away
> when you use the "nv" or the "vesa" driver. (Just to make sure that we
> only have to worry about the nvidia driver and nothing else.)

Do you need help?X

I guess I could try that.

> The Xorg glx module is loaded instead of the one from nvidia. How did
> you install the nvidia driver, from the Debian packages or with the
> installer from nvidia's website?

The driver could have been clobbered, because I didn't install the nvidia driver
the "Debian Way". I just ran the nvidia *run file from their website.

But the libglx*9755 file is still there, and the file date seems to match when I installed the
nvidia driver. Would a simple relink, changing libglx.so to point to the nvidia file, work here?

dfox@m206-157:~$ ls -l /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/ total 3771 

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   19355 2007-06-01 06:28 libdbe.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   35862 2007-06-01 06:28 libdri.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  147972 2007-06-01 06:28 libextmod.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2460192 2007-06-01 06:28 libGLcore.so

Do you need more help?X

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  424173 2007-06-01 06:28 libglx.so
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  691852 2007-05-06 15:42 libglx.so.1.0.9755
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   28021 2007-06-01 06:28 librecord.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   40017 2007-06-01 06:28 libxtrap.so

> --
> Regards,            | http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer
>           Florian   |
>
>

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On 6/24/07, Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@icfo.es> wrote:


First of all, I would quickly try if the crash on shutdown goes away
when you use the "nv" or the "vesa" driver. (Just to make sure that we
only have to worry about the nvidia driver and nothing else.)



I guess I could try that. 
 
The Xorg glx module is loaded instead of the one from nvidia. How did
<br>you install the nvidia driver, from the Debian packages or with the<br>installer from nvidia&#39;s website?</blockquote><div><br><br>The driver could have been clobbered, because I didn&#39;t install the&nbsp; nvidia driver <br>the &quot;Debian Way&quot;. I just ran the nvidia *run file from their website.<br><br>But the libglx*9755 file is still there, and the file date seems to match when I installed the<br>nvidia driver. Would a simple relink, changing 
libglx.so to point to the nvidia file, work here?


dfox@m206-157:~$ ls -l /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/
total 3771
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   19355 2007-06-01 06:28 libdbe.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   35862 2007-06-01 06:28 libdri.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  147972 2007-06-01 06:28 libextmod.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2460192 2007-06-01 06:28 libGLcore.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  424173 2007-06-01 06:28 libglx.so
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  691852 2007-05-06 15:42 libglx.so.1.0.9755
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   28021 2007-06-01 06:28 librecord.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   40017 2007-06-01 06:28 libxtrap.so

Can we help you?X
<br>--<br>Regards,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Florian&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br><br></blockquote></div><br>

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Can't find what you're looking for?X

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:14:40 +0200
From: Mathias Brodala <info@noctus.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Xorg crashes when playing video with totem? Message-ID: <467EDEC0.70300@noctus.net>
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Hi Carl.

Carl Fink, 24.06.2007 22:37:
> Is anyone else experiencing occasional Xorg crashes when totem is runni=
ng?=20
> I've had six, all of them while totem-xine is playing video. =20

Any errors? What about ~/.xsession-errors and /var/log/Xorg.0.log? Does totem-gstreamer work? What version are you running?

Regards, Mathias

--=20
debian/rules 

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Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:02:29 -0500
From: Owen Heisler <owenh000@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: mail server for offline system 

Message-ID: <467EDBE5.60501@gmail.com>
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(I'm sorry if this message shows up several times; mutt mangled my mail)

I've been using Postfix, but would like to find a mail server that supports running on an offline system. I tried masqmail, but it is old, has lots of very old bugs, and the software's site doesn't even exist anymore.

Postfix, exim4, or any other decent mail server in Deiban that (preferrably) can be configured easily with will suffice. The server must support Maildir folders, honor the ~/.forward file (perhaps they all do?), and not attempt to deliver non-local messages when a specified interface is down.

Thanks for any ideas!
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Confused? Frustrated?X

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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 07:33:31 +1000
From: Alex Samad <alex@samad.com.au>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Nvidia Card - nvidia driver or nv ? Message-ID: <20070624213331.GT31479@samad.com.au> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;

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Hi

I have a nvidia card, and I was wondering if I should be using the nv drive= r or=20
the nvidia driver. I don't do any thing flash, watch movies with mplayer an= d=20
some development work with eclipse and firefox. I do use the TV out on one=  of=20
my machines.

Last time I checked the main difference was 3d acceleration, whats the main= =20
difference now, should I be using nv for what I am doing ?

Alex

Call Pantek today for Open Source Technical Support at 1-877-546-8934 - 24/7/365X

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Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:40:04 +0100
From: Hans du Plooy <koffiejunkielistlurker@koffiejunkie.za.net> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: mail server for offline system 

Message-ID: <467EE4B4.2060901@koffiejunkie.za.net>
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Owen Heisler wrote:
> Postfix, exim4, or any other decent mail server in Deiban that
> (preferrably) can be configured easily with will suffice. The server
> must support Maildir folders, honor the ~/.forward file (perhaps they
> all do?), and not attempt to deliver non-local messages when a specified
> interface is down.

http://www.postfix.org/STANDARD_CONFIGURATION_README.html#dialup

Hans

Do you need help?X

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:54:45 +0200
From: Till Wimmer <g4-lisz@tonarchiv.ch> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Server keeps freezing up 

Message-ID: <467EE825.7060001@tonarchiv.ch>
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Hi Justin,

sounds to me like a hardware problem. Or did the problem start after a certain update? What do the log files look like just before the crash?

Maybe you should run a memory check or change the RAM bars.

Did you check the BIOS settings? Maybe there are wrong timing settings for the RAM.
How old is the server hardware? Is the cooling in good order?

Till

Justin Hartman wrote:
> Hi Folks
>
> I have a major problem in that my Debian Etch server keeps freezing
> and the only way to get it back online is to manually reboot it. This
> started about a month ago but as time increases so does the amount of
> freezes and to be honest I don't have a clue where to start to resolve
> this issue.
>
> My hunch is that a mysql database is causing the problem but what I
> don't get is why it would freeze up the entire server. I've gone
> through syslog, daemon, mysql-slow and other apache and kernel log
> files but there is nothing obvious pointing me in the direction as to
> what's causing the problem.
>
> I've also been running munin on the server for some time and nothing
> leading up to the freeze reflects either in munin graphs. I was hoping
> that there might be a spike in cpu, memory or anything for that matter
> but alas nothing.
>
> Does anyone perhaps have any advice in trying to help me problem-solve
> this one?

Do you need more help?X

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:23:46 +0100
From: "Karl E. Jorgensen" <karl@jorgensen.org.uk> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Memory leaks and swap
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On Sun, Jun 24, 2007 at 09:50:39PM +0200, Christopher Zimmermann wrote:
> Hi!
>=20
> Sometimes I experience system hangs because of memory leaks. A process
> with a memory leak eats all memory till the system starts swapping.
> Only a few seconds after the process was started the system slows down
> till it is practically useless. I believe this could be prevented by
> deactivating swap so that the OOM killer would catch this process.
> But is there a better way to solve such issues?

Perhaps. And perhaps not.

You could play with "ulimit -v" - see your shell docs for info about=20 ulimit (it's a built-in). This can put limits on the per-process=20 resource usage.

I had good luck with adding e.g.:

Can we help you?X

    ulimit -v 512000

in my ~/.xsession .

Be careful not to set it too low though or weirdy stuff will happen.

Sometimes processes allocate loads of memory and never use it(!): This=20 doesn't take up swap and is quite harmless. But it is still subject to=20 ulimit size. I had things like my browser Java plug-in failing silently=20 until I increased the ulimit accordingly...

Hope this helps
--=20
Karl E. Jorgensen
karl(at)jorgensen.org.uk http://www.jorgensen.org.uk/ karl(at)jorgensen.com http://karl.jorgensen.com =3D=3D=3D=3D Today's fortune:
Modern man is the missing link between apes and human beings.

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Can't find what you're looking for?X

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:24:56 GMT
From: "s. keeling" <keeling@spots.ab.ca> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: scripting - cat breaking line Message-ID: <slrnf7trpo.dtg.keeling@heretic.spots.ab.ca>

L.V.Gandhi <lvgandhi@gmail.com>:
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>
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> Ogo+Cj4gRWwgc8OhYiwgMjMtMDYtMjAwNyBhIGxhcyAxODo0MyAtMDcwMCwgTC5WLkdhbmRoaSBl

Why am I looking at a base64 binary blob in a Debian mailinglist? Would you please not do this? It's bad enough that you post html. The above is useless. 

-- 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*)    
http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling          Linux Counter #80292
- -    
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html    Please, don't Cc: me.

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 00:20:24 +0200 From: "Justin Hartman" <jjhartman@gmail.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Server keeps freezing up Message-ID: <5204f4700706241520q719c52acg3b2326f79965dc87@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Till Thank you very much for taking the time to get back to me on this issue. On 6/24/07, Till Wimmer <g4-lisz@tonarchiv.ch> wrote:
> sounds to me like a hardware problem. Or did the problem start after a
> certain update? What do the log files look like just before the crash?
This problem began a month back where the server froze. It was reset and didn't play up again until last week thursday when it did the same thing and ever since thursday it's been freezing every 16 hours or so. There were no major updates done on the system during this time. What does concern me however is that the freeze starts first with mysql and in particular quite heavy load database on that. Basically that database crashes while the others are fine and then soon after that the entire server freezes. In checking the log files I have to say I see simply nothing. Everything from a log file perspective looks normal up until and including the crash. Whats weird is that log files show no signs that the server has crashed but it has.
> Maybe you should run a memory check or change the RAM bars.
> Did you check the BIOS settings? Maybe there are wrong timing settings
> for the RAM.
I will have to get the datacenter to check this info for me.
> How old is the server hardware? Is the cooling in good order?
The server is only 3 months old and was bought brand new at the time when it was launched. I have also setup a script using cron to check memory consumption and processes and hopefully I can catch something at the time this happens again. I think memory may also be an issue so it will be interesting to see what the output of the script is next time this happens. -- Regards Justin Hartman http://justinhartman.com http://www.afrigator.com

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:36:29 GMT From: "s. keeling" <keeling@spots.ab.ca> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: time zone Message-ID: <slrnf7tsfd.dtg.keeling@heretic.spots.ab.ca> j j <jj6419@gmail.com>:
>
> The time on my desktop is set to UTC. I'll like to read it EST. Is there
See /etc/default/rcS Please don't post html to mailing lists. -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*) http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling Linux Counter #80292 - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 00:47:32 +0200 From: baldyeti <e_fax_t@hotmail.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: how to install ntfs-3g from etch-backports Message-ID: <f5msa4$35o$1@sea.gmane.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for your replies gents. It seems reliability is not fully guaranteed unless one runs under 2.6.20+ with fuse 2.6.9+. Etch fulfils neither requirement. Apt-cache tells me I could install 2.6.21 (probably thanks to etch-backports). Do you think the kernel upgrade would take care of fuse, and then I'd only need to compile ntfs-3g from source? --bald

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 01:17:27 +0200 From: Till Wimmer <g4-lisz@tonarchiv.ch> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Server keeps freezing up Message-ID: <467EFB87.2000906@tonarchiv.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Justin Hartman wrote:
> Hi Till
>
> Thank you very much for taking the time to get back to me on this issue.
You're welcome.
>
>
> What does concern me however is that the freeze starts first with
> mysql and in particular quite heavy load database on that. Basically
> that database crashes while the others are fine and then soon after
> that the entire server freezes.
IMHO crashing on heavy load is a typical sign for a hardware issue. I once had a similar behavior on one of my systems when there wasn't enough thermal grease on the heat sink. I only remarked it when i tried to compile the kernel. On normal load the system was stable. But that's only a guess.
>
> The server is only 3 months old and was bought brand new at the time
> when it was launched.
Did you do any heavy load testings before you put the server into operation? Do you have some "exotic" hardware which needs immature kernel drivers? Maybe you should post to the mysql mailing list, too. Till

Don't know where to look next?X

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 01:05:40 +0200 From: Till Wimmer <t.wimmer@tonarchiv.ch> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Server keeps freezing up Message-ID: <467EF8C4.8060002@tonarchiv.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Justin Hartman wrote:
> Hi Till
>
> Thank you very much for taking the time to get back to me on this issue.
You're welcome.
>
>
> What does concern me however is that the freeze starts first with
> mysql and in particular quite heavy load database on that. Basically
> that database crashes while the others are fine and then soon after
> that the entire server freezes.
IMHO crashing on heavy load is a typical sign for a hardware issue. I once had a similar behavior on one of my systems when there wasn't enough thermal grease on the heat sink. I only remarked it when i tried to compile the kernel. On normal load the system was stable. But that's only a guess.
>
> The server is only 3 months old and was bought brand new at the time
> when it was launched.
Did you do any heavy load testings before you put the server into operation? Do you have some "exotic" hardware which needs immature kernel drivers? Maybe you should post to the mysql mailing list, too. Till

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:34:53 -0500 From: Owen Heisler <owenh000@gmail.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: hddtemp value Message-ID: <467EFF9D.6090302@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ralph Katz wrote:
> On 06/22/2007 05:03 PM, michael@estone.ca wrote:
>> Quoting Pol Hallen <debianen@fuckaround.org>:
>>> Which value hddtemp show? (about my ata disks, between 45-55 C)
>>>
>>> Is it correct? Or I should worry?
>>>
>> 45-55 C seems a little hot. They will probalby work for you but your
>> drives will probably die sooner than later. Either they are too close
>> together and/or you need more direct fans on your drives.
>> I think normal operating temps for drives is between 35 and 40 C.
>> perhaps check with your drive manufacturer and check the recommended
>> operating temps.
>
> If Pol should worry, then my drive must have more than 9 lives. ;)
>
> Perhaps this old drive doesn't really have a sensor, but this is typical
> of entries in /var/log/daemon.log:
>
> Jun 23 08:21:47 localhost smartd[2616]: Device: /dev/hda, SMART Usage
> Attribute: 231 Temperature_Celsius changed from 239 to 166
> Jun 23 08:51:47 localhost smartd[2616]: Device: /dev/hda, SMART Usage
> Attribute: 231 Temperature_Celsius changed from 166 to 157
> Jun 23 09:21:48 localhost smartd[2616]: Device: /dev/hda, SMART Usage
> Attribute: 231 Temperature_Celsius changed from 157 to 144
>
> Maybe it gives new meaning to the phrase, "really smokin'!" This
> desktop PIII has been reliably running debian for 3 1/2 years.
My hard drives never drop below 40 C. I have a four drives in this system: One is underneath a CD/DVD drive near the top of the case. That one would get hotter, I would assume, because air doesn't move much up there, but it is at 42 C now, which (from my own experience) isn't that hot. This drive isn't used much, that may make a difference. One is under the floppy drive (hmm, does it even work anymore?); I would expect it to be a bit cooler; it is at 40 C. Two are at the bottom of the case right in front of (like a cm from) the fan. They are very close, with maybe 2 mm between, but they should be quite cool I would think, with air blowing directly on them. One is 40 C and the other is 78 C! Exact same drives. Neither feels much warmer than the other, as far as I can tell, and smartctl shows no errors. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGfv+d9XC8Sh1vpNARAmVaAJ9bG0/I9PoZgBL0Z5eVM+xhN1IFCwCfbkX6 vPGmcjwCRlJhhFEhDTu61Ws= =3KRo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:46:04 -0400 From: Roberto =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=2E_S=E1nchez?= <roberto@connexer.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: apt-caher or approx? Message-ID: <20070625004604.GB31292@santiago.connexer.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK" Content-Disposition: inline --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 22, 2007 at 06:56:48PM +0000, Sylvain Le Gall wrote:
>=20
> I am using approx for a at least one year now. I used apt-proxy before.
> Approx is fast and simple. There is almost no configuration (just add
> the repository you want to use) and change the sources.list of your
> host. Concerning speed, i move from apt-proxy which can achieve 1MBps
> to approx (2-4MBps).=20
>=20
What is the basis for your speed measurements on apt-proxy? I've used for quite a while now. It regularly achieves line speed (T1 for remote repos; 100 Mbps for repos on the same LAN) for packages it must fetch and disk speed limits for packages it has already chached. Regards, -Roberto --=20 Roberto C. S=E1nchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGfxBM1snWssAFC08RAl8LAKCC+zH2Zx5ZNqRIEVn+wg19kZ3q5wCfTCRo gez+K6ba3EZinpMGwpBxSKo= =+S/J -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK--

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:59:09 -0000 From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: xterm hanging Message-ID: <137tmotoqd9el52@corp.supernews.com> pol <linux_milano@yahoo.it> wrote:
> Launching /usr/X11R6/bin/xterm from a terminal yields the following lines:

>
> Warning: translation table syntax error: Unknown keysym name: XF86Paste
> Warning: ... found while parsing '<KeyPress>
> XF86Paste:insert-selection(SELECT, CUT_BUFFER0) '
> Warning: String to TranslationTable conversion encountered errors

> xterm window cannot accept any input. Any ideas?
see ftp://invisible-island.net/temp/xterm-226b.patch.gz -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:18:58 -0400 From: Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Xorg crashes when playing video with totem? Message-ID: <20070625011858.GA9181@nitpicking.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, Jun 24, 2007 at 11:14:40PM +0200, Mathias Brodala wrote:
> Hi Carl.
>
> Carl Fink, 24.06.2007 22:37:
> > Is anyone else experiencing occasional Xorg crashes when totem is running?
> > I've had six, all of them while totem-xine is playing video.
>
> Any errors? What about ~/.xsession-errors and /var/log/Xorg.0.log? Does
> totem-gstreamer work? What version are you running?
No errors in any log, just suddenly finding myself looking at tty1. Haven't tried totem-gstreamer, because the last time I did that, it crashed almost immediately on any video. Version 2.16.5-3. -- Carl Fink nitpicking@nitpicking.com Read my blog at nitpickingblog.blogspot.com. Reviews! Observations! Stupid mistakes you can correct!

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:21:28 -0600 From: TW <twilliams001@elp.rr.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: [SOLVED]: Ethernet RJ-45 Not Working Message-ID: <467F1898.8000800@elp.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I reinstalled the OS and it works fine. ~Telly End of debian-user-digest Digest V2007 Issue #1838 ************************************************** Received on Sun Jun 24 21:39:34 2007

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