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debian-user-digest Digest V2007 #1846

From: <debian-user-digest-request(at)lists.debian.org>
Date: Mon Jun 25 2007 - 16:01:10 EDT


Content-Type: text/plain

debian-user-digest Digest Volume 2007 : Issue 1846

Today's Topics: 

  Re: stability problem; Asus M2N-MX m  [ David Brodbeck  ]
  Re: RTF - proprietary or open?        [ John Hasler  ]
  Re: RTF - proprietary or open?        [ Mike McCarty  ]
  Re: RTF - proprietary or open?        [ "Andrew J. Barr"  ]
  Re: Using Debian Package Manager      [ Jochen Schulz  ]
  Re: RTF - proprietary or open?        [ Mike McCarty 

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:26:25 -0700


From: David Brodbeck <brodbd@u.washington.edu>
To: Debian User <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: stability problem; Asus M2N-MX mobo AMD 64; etch; is it hardware or software?
Message-Id: <A85FBAD6-5251-4C18-ADA8-26B5480845C4@u.washington.edu>
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On Jun 25, 2007, at 10:15 AM, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:


> Last one I ran across was a bad agp video card. machine
> wouldn't boot. I assumed it was the mobo cause I put *everything* into
> another mobo and it all booted just fine. The only thing I hadn't
> moved was the video card... the "faulty" board has no onboard video,
> so I guess my brain didn't make the leap. Anyway, it wasn't until
> after I had purchased another mobo which *also* wouldn't boot that I
> finally realised the video card was the common factor and the
> culprit.

I ran into that once, too.  Except in my case it was a PCI video  
card.  The machine wouldn't even POST with that card installed.  I  
was sure it was the motherboard, but just to be safe I yanked out the  
video card and tried it with the on-board video...and it booted.  ATI  
exchanged the card, no questions asked, and the machine has been fine  
ever since.


Do you need help?X

I missed the beginning of this thread, but has anyone suggested  
MEMTEST-86 yet?  That's always the first place I go when I have  
stability problems.  Bad RAM is more common than you'd think.  I now  
test all new RAM (and all systems that come with RAM pre-installed)  
for at least one pass with MEMTEST-86 before putting a machine in  
service.  I even do this when installing known-good RAM into a  
different machine, because I've run into RAM compatibility issues  
before.




David Brodbeck


Information Technology Specialist 3


Computational Linguistics


University of Washington




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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Jun 25, 2007, =
at 10:15 AM, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Last one I ran across was a bad agp video card. =
machine</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">wouldn't boot. I assumed it was =
the mobo cause I put *everything* into</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">another =
mobo and it all booted just fine. The only thing I hadn't</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">moved was the video card... the "faulty" board has =
no onboard video,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">so I guess my brain didn't make =
the leap. Anyway, it wasn't until</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">after I had =
purchased another mobo which *also* wouldn't boot that I</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">finally realised the video card was the common =
factor and the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =


">culprit.<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I ran into that once, too.=A0=
 Except in my case it was a PCI video card.=A0 The machine wouldn't even =
POST with that card installed.=A0 I was sure it was the motherboard, but =
just to be safe I yanked out the video card and tried it with the =
on-board video...and it booted.=A0 ATI exchanged the card, no questions =
asked, and the machine has been fine ever since.</DIV></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I missed the beginning of =
this thread, but has anyone suggested MEMTEST-86 yet?=A0 That's always =
the first place I go when I have stability problems.=A0 Bad RAM is more =
common than you'd think.=A0 I now test all new RAM (and all systems that =
come with RAM pre-installed) for at least one pass with MEMTEST-86 =
before putting a machine in service.=A0 I even do this when installing =
known-good RAM into a different machine, because I've run into RAM =
compatibility issues before.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>David =
Brodbeck</DIV><DIV>Information Technology Specialist =
3</DIV><DIV>Computational Linguistics</DIV><DIV>University of =
Washington</DIV><BR class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN> =
</DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>=



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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:43:48 -0400


From: Matthew K Poer <matthewpoer@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: Fonts are small, in second X11 log-in
Message-Id: <200706251343.51569.matthewpoer@gmail.com>
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Had a similar issue a few months back that is probably related "Fonts from=
=20


GDM?". Received excellent advice (commands/files) that I can't really=20
remember.=20


Do you need more help?X

=46rom the web archive:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2007/03/thrd2.html#00052

On Monday 25 June 2007 12:56 pm, Masatran, R. Deepak wrote:

> I am using up-to-date Debian Testing on my laptop, mainly with XFCE and
> Sawfish. All logging-in is from GDM. When I log-in as the first user, I g=

et

> the normal-sized fonts.
>
> But when I log-in using "New login" in X-screen-saver, after someone else
> has locked the screen, all the fonts are smaller than normal. How can I
> solve this?

=2D-=20


Matthew K Poer <matthewpoer@gmail.com>

Location: GA, USA              Web: 
http://matthewpoer.freehostia.com
GnuPG Public Key: 4DD0A9A6     Keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net


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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:29:39 -0400


From: "Andrew J. Barr" <andrew.james.barr@gmail.com>
To: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: Sound card not working

Message-ID: <20070625132939.1f5d29ae@conroe.oakcourt.dyndns.org>

Can't find what you're looking for?X

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Can we help you?X

Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:


> I have to say that since alsa started shipping with dmix by default,
> it all works *much* better. But its still confusing and is (to my mind
> at least) sucn an esoteric subject that its kind of all like
> blackmagic to make it work properly.

PulseAudio is the future:


http://www.pulseaudio.org/

There is a presentation linked to off of their site that lists the
limitations of other solutions, such as ALSA dmix. I use it, it's quite
nice--Zeroconf support for network-transparent sound. Which is nice
when you want to play a video on your laptop and get sound output
through a stereo hooked up to your desktop box. :)



Best yet it has support for emulating ESD, right down to it's API and
wire protocol.


> A
-- 
Andrew J. Barr

Woke up in my clothes again this morning,
don't know exactly where I am...


Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:04:56 -0400
From: Ralph Katz <ralph.katz@rcn.com>
To: Debian User <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: hddtemp value
Message-ID: <468003C8.9060001@rcn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 06/25/2007 01:02 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:


> Conventional wisdom is that higher temperatures shorten disk life, but
> IIRC Google did a study on their own drives and didn't find any
> significant correlation.


Correct.

Failure Trends in a Large Disk Drive Population
Appears in the Proceedings of the 5th USENIX Conference on File and
Storage Technologies (FAST'07), February 2007
http://labs.google.com/papers/disk_failures.pdf
>From the Conclusion:


One of our key findings has been the lack of a con-
sistent pattern of higher failure rates for higher temper-
ature drives or for those drives at higher utilization lev-
els. Such correlations have been repeatedly highlighted
by previous studies, but we are unable to confirm them
by observing our population.


>From the Abstract:


   Our analysis identifies several parameters from the drive's
self monitoring facility (SMART) that correlate highly with
failures. Despite this high correlation, we conclude that mod-
els based on SMART parameters alone are unlikely to be useful
for predicting individual drive failures. Surprisingly, we found
that temperature and activity levels were much less correlated
with drive failures than previously reported.


Don't know where to look next?X

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:33:27 -0500
From: John Hasler <jhasler@debian.org>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: RTF - proprietary or open?
Message-ID: <87fy4gvt08.fsf@toncho.dhh.gt.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

David Baron writes:

> Microsoft does not restrict [the use of RTF] to my knowledge.


They can't.


> SQL is also theirs...


Whatever gave you that idea?  IBM created SQL before Microsoft existed!  It
has been an ISO standard since 1987.  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL>
-- 
John Hasler



Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:54:01 -0500
From: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: RTF - proprietary or open?
Message-ID: <46800139.5050801@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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John Hasler wrote:

> David Baron writes:
> 
>>Microsoft does not restrict [the use of RTF] to my knowledge.
> 
> 
> They can't.


Are you a lawyer? How do you know this?


> 
> 
>>SQL is also theirs...
> 
> 
> Whatever gave you that idea?  IBM created SQL before Microsoft existed!  It
> has been an ISO standard since 1987.  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL>


You need to learn some history. MicroSoft predates 1987 by quite
a bit.

Mike
-- 
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!



Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:39:19 +0200
From: Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@icfo.es>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: set up Xserver for etch upgrade
Message-ID: <20070625173919.GA6503@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 08:56:04 -0000, rocky wrote:

[ snip: A problem with /dev/psmouse was solved by purging the hotplug
  package. ]


> Yes, I go ahead and upgrade the linux-image to 2.6.18 and reload udev.
> Now it seems the mouse problem is gone but I still not be able to
> startx. Because the system tells me:
> 
> $-----------------------snap begin------------------------------------$
> (EE) AIGLX: Screen 0 is not DRI capable
> error opening security policy file /etc/X11/xserver/SecurityPolicy
>     xkb_keycodes             { include "xfree86+aliases(qwerty)" };
>     xkb_types                { include "complete" };
>     xkb_compatibility        { include "complete" };
>     xkb_symbols              { include "pc(pc105)+us" };
>     xkb_geometry             { include "pc(pc104)" };
> 
> Fatal server error:
> could not open default font 'fixed'
> XIO:  fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0"
>       after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining.
> $--------------------------snap end----------------------------------------$


You probably need to change the font paths in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf;
see here:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2006/05/msg02096.html

If you cannot figure out what to do then you can post the output of

awk '/Section "Files"/,/EndSection/' /etc/X11/xorg.conf

so that we can have a look at the relevant part of your configuration
file.

-- 
Regards,            | http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer
          Florian   |



Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:17:06 -0700
From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Sound card not working
Message-ID: <20070625181705.GP12527@localhost.localdomain>
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On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 01:29:39PM -0400, Andrew J. Barr wrote:

> Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:
>=20
> > I have to say that since alsa started shipping with dmix by default,
> > it all works *much* better. But its still confusing and is (to my mind
> > at least) sucn an esoteric subject that its kind of all like
> > blackmagic to make it work properly.
>=20
> PulseAudio is the future:
>=20
> http://www.pulseaudio.org/


so is it really the future? It looks pretty sweet and I think one of
the real problems with linux adoption overall is the sound situation
(the video situation seems to be in pretty good shape to me). With
multiple solutions in various stages of adoption, its kind of
frustrating to make sense of it. I didn't dig into the website much,
so didn't see: is there any indication that the world is actually
moving this way as a sort of standard? I thought that's what alsa was
supposed to be?

A

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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:14:02 -0400
From: Tom Grove <debian@voidmain.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: IPW3945 With Etch
Message-ID: <468005EA.3090002@voidmain.net>
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It seems as though I am able to install the modules via module-assistant 
and I receive an eth1 with wireless properties.  The problem is that no 
matter what I set my AP to I can't connect to it.  I typically just run 
with WEP but regardless or whether or not I am using WEP/WPA/Nothing I 
can not connect to the AP with this card.  Any ideas or help is much 
appreciated.  Thanks.

-Tom



Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:16:12 -0400
From: "Andrew J. Barr" <andrew.james.barr@gmail.com>
To: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: RTF - proprietary or open?
Message-ID: <20070625141612.42186e07@conroe.oakcourt.dyndns.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> >>SQL is also theirs...
> > 
> > 
> > Whatever gave you that idea?  IBM created SQL before Microsoft
> > existed!  It has been an ISO standard since 1987.
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL>
> 
> You need to learn some history. MicroSoft predates 1987 by quite
> a bit.


Um, if memory serves me, IBM created SQL in the '60s.
 

> Mike



-- 
Andrew J. Barr

Woke up in my clothes again this morning,
don't know exactly where I am...



Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:33:35 -0700
From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Sound card not working
Message-ID: <20070625183335.GR12527@localhost.localdomain>
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On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 02:27:04PM -0400, Andrew J. Barr wrote:

> Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:
>=20
> > On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 01:29:39PM -0400, Andrew J. Barr wrote:
> > > Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:
> > >=20
> > > > I have to say that since alsa started shipping with dmix by
> > > > default, it all works *much* better. But its still confusing and
> > > > is (to my mind at least) sucn an esoteric subject that its kind
> > > > of all like blackmagic to make it work properly.
> > >=20
> > > PulseAudio is the future:
> > >=20
> > > http://www.pulseaudio.org/
> >=20
> > so is it really the future?
>=20
> They claim it is "ESD done right", so I think they aim to replace ESD
> in GNOME.
>=20
> It doesn't need to be a standard, as they also say on the site, 90% of
> existing Linux sound apps can use it already.
>=20
> It supports apps that use ESD, ALSA, GStreamer. Xine and Mplayer have
> support for it's native protocol.


yeah, it looks very cool and very promising. I like the apparently
simple networking and combining of sources and sinks. very very
interesting.


>=20
> > A
>=20


heh. we don't have to sign off anymore... just quote each other.


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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:27:04 -0400
From: "Andrew J. Barr" <andrew.james.barr@gmail.com>
To: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Sound card not working
Message-ID: <20070625142704.6f0e0c99@conroe.oakcourt.dyndns.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:


> On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 01:29:39PM -0400, Andrew J. Barr wrote:
> > Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > I have to say that since alsa started shipping with dmix by
> > > default, it all works *much* better. But its still confusing and
> > > is (to my mind at least) sucn an esoteric subject that its kind
> > > of all like blackmagic to make it work properly.
> > 
> > PulseAudio is the future:
> > 
> > http://www.pulseaudio.org/
> 
> so is it really the future?


They claim it is "ESD done right", so I think they aim to replace ESD
in GNOME.

It doesn't need to be a standard, as they also say on the site, 90% of
existing Linux sound apps can use it already.

It supports apps that use ESD, ALSA, GStreamer. Xine and Mplayer have
support for it's native protocol.


> A



-- 
Andrew J. Barr

Woke up in my clothes again this morning,
don't know exactly where I am...


Confused? Frustrated?X

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:27:34 -0400
From: "Andrew J. Barr" <andrew.james.barr@gmail.com>
To: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Sound card not working
Message-ID: <20070625142734.61cfde6b@conroe.oakcourt.dyndns.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"Andrew J. Barr" <andrew.james.barr@gmail.com> wrote:


> Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 01:29:39PM -0400, Andrew J. Barr wrote:
> > > Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I have to say that since alsa started shipping with dmix by
> > > > default, it all works *much* better. But its still confusing and
> > > > is (to my mind at least) sucn an esoteric subject that its kind
> > > > of all like blackmagic to make it work properly.
> > > 
> > > PulseAudio is the future:
> > > 
> > > http://www.pulseaudio.org/
> > 
> > so is it really the future?
> 
> They claim it is "ESD done right", so I think they aim to replace ESD
> in GNOME.
> 
> It doesn't need to be a standard, as they also say on the site, 90% of
> existing Linux sound apps can use it already.
> 
> It supports apps that use ESD, ALSA, GStreamer. Xine and Mplayer have
> support for it's native protocol.


I forgot:

OSS too, of course.
 

> > A
> 
> 



-- 
Andrew J. Barr

Woke up in my clothes again this morning,
don't know exactly where I am...



Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:20:14 -0500
From: John Hasler <jhasler@debian.org>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: RTF - proprietary or open?
Message-ID: <873b0fx5ep.fsf@toncho.dhh.gt.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I wrote:

> Whatever gave you that idea?  IBM created SQL before Microsoft existed!  It
> has been an ISO standard since 1987.  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL>


Mike writes:

> You need to learn some history. MicroSoft predates 1987 by quite a bit.


You need to learn some history (it isn't history for me).  IBM developed
SQL in the early 1970s.  It just didn't become an ISO standard until 1987.

Follow the link I gave you.
-- 
John Hasler



Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:05:10 +0200
From: Jochen Schulz <ml@well-adjusted.de>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Using Debian Package Manager
Message-ID: <20070625190509.GC19479@wasteland.homelinux.net>
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russ421@aol.com:

>
> I just installed Debian.  I'm wondering about the Synaptic Package Manage=

r.  As

> I've never used a GUI for Linux before, I will need to get used to how th=

ings

> work.


If you already have experience in using the command line, nothing stops
you from keeping to use it. In many cases, you need these skills anyway.


> I wanted to install a motherboard monitor.  I found one in the list, xmbm=

on,

> and chose to install it.  It said installation complete.  However, I have=

 no

> idea how to find it and run it.  It's not showing up in the applications =

list

> anywhere.


This is probably a minor problem with the package. For some packages it
doesn't make sense to add a menu entry, others just install binaries
with unexpected names (which I think is the case with xmbmon).

Either way, whether icons are created or not doesn't depend on the
package manager you use. They all just unpack the .deb file and run some
scripts.


J.
--=20
I wish I looked more like a successful person even though I'm a loser.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 <http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:29:17 -0500
From: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: RTF - proprietary or open?
Message-ID: <4680178D.1060105@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Andrew J. Barr wrote:

> Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>>>>SQL is also theirs...
>>>
>>>
>>>Whatever gave you that idea?  IBM created SQL before Microsoft
>>>existed!  It has been an ISO standard since 1987.
>>><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL>
>>
>>You need to learn some history. MicroSoft predates 1987 by quite
>>a bit.
> 
> 
> Um, if memory serves me, IBM created SQL in the '60s.


But that wasn't his point. I don't know when SQL was created,
and wasn't making that claim. However, his claim seemed to
be that MicroSoft doesn't predate 1987, which is absurd.

Mike
-- 
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!



Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:31:09 -0500
From: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: RTF - proprietary or open?
Message-ID: <468017FD.40008@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

John Hasler wrote:

> I wrote:
> 
>>Whatever gave you that idea?  IBM created SQL before Microsoft existed!  It
>>has been an ISO standard since 1987.  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL>
> 
> 
> Mike writes:
> 
>>You need to learn some history. MicroSoft predates 1987 by quite a bit.
> 
> 
> You need to learn some history (it isn't history for me).  IBM developed


No, I don't.


> SQL in the early 1970s.  It just didn't become an ISO standard until 1987.
> 
> Follow the link I gave you.


I replied to your message AS WRITTEN. If you don't mean to imply
that MicroSoft doesn't predate 1987, then you shouldn't make
a statement like that.

If you knew that SQL was created in the 60s or 70s, then you
don't need to learn history, you need to learn English.

Mike
-- 
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!

End of debian-user-digest Digest V2007 Issue #1846
**************************************************

Received on Mon Jun 25 16:01:34 2007

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Mon Jun 25 2007 - 16:10:02 EDT

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