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debian-user-digest Digest V2007 #1868

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Date: Fri Jun 29 2007 - 16:15:46 EDT

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debian-user-digest Digest Volume 2007 : Issue 1868

Today's Topics:

  FileSystem Question                   [ "Manon Metten"  ]
  Re: ipw3945d starts but not detectin  [ Michael Pobega  ]
  Re: archive corrupted !               [ sfantar  ]
  Re: archive corrupted !               [ sfantar  ]
  Re: FileSystem Question               [ "Manon Metten"  ]
  Re: backports                         [ Florian Kulzer  ]
  Re: RTF - proprietary or open?        [ Celejar  ]

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:06:28 +0000
From: "Manon Metten" <manon.metten@gmail.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: FileSystem Question
Message-ID: <5da176070706291006w3d450b06ke091085df04a8b35@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

boundary="----=_Part_62271_26350638.1183136788905"

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Hi,

Do you need help?

On my Debian GNU/Linux box I use ext3 file system. On my other platform (AmigaOS) I use SmartFileSystem (SFS). Well, I don't know nothing about file systems, but SFS has one feature I really miss in ext3: ".recycled".

Every file I delete or every file I overwrite, ends up in .recycled. This is very
useful when eg. retrieving a document (or every other file that gets overwritten
multiple times).

Eg: Say that I'm writing "my_doc" using OOo. When I save it for the first time,
it will be written to disk. When I save it the second time, the first copy will be
moved to .recycled where it gets a hex nr appended (eg: my_doc$AAA) and the new version will be saved to disk.
So when I save my_doc five times, 4 copies end up in .recycled (my_doc$AAA, my_doc$AAB, my_doc$AAC, my_doc$AAD). But I could easily save my_doc a thousand times, and all copies end up in .recycled (well, actually, the max
number of copies .recycled stores depend on the settings but the limit is over
32,000).

Now after saving for the fifth time, I realize that I had accidentally deleted some
vital info. How can I retrieve that? I just open eg. .recycled/my_doc$AAB, copy
the info that was not deleted at that time and paste it in my current doc.

Now here's my question: Is there a file system for GNU/Linux with a similar feature? I would at least like to have my ~ partition to use such a file system.

Greetings, Manon.

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Hi, On my Debian GNU/Linux box I use ext3 file system. On my other platform (AmigaOS) I use SmartFileSystem (SFS). Well, I don't know nothing about file systems, but SFS has one feature I really miss in ext3: ".recycled".



Every file I delete or every file I overwrite, ends up in .recycled. This is very
 useful when eg. retrieving a document (or every other file that gets overwritten
multiple times).

Eg: Say that I'm writing  "my_doc" using OOo. When I save it for the first time,

it will be written to disk. When I save it the second time, the first copy will be
moved to .recycled where it gets a hex nr appended (eg: my_doc$AAA) and
the new version will be saved to disk.
So when I save my_doc five times, 4 copies end up in .recycled (my_doc$AAA,
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my_doc$AAB, my_doc$AAC, my_doc$AAD). But I could easily save my_doc
a thousand times, and all copies end up in .recycled (well, actually, the max
number of copies .recycled stores depend on the settings but  the limit is over

 32,000).

Now after saving for the fifth time, I realize that I had accidentally deleted some
 vital info. How can I retrieve that? I just open  eg. .recycled/my_doc$AAB, copy
the info that was not deleted at that time and paste it in my current doc.


Now here's my question: Is there a file system for GNU/Linux with a similar
feature? I would at least like to have my ~ partition to use such a file system.

Greetings, Manon.

Do you need more help?

------=_Part_62271_26350638.1183136788905--

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:31:19 +0200
From: Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: How to move the master boot record? Message-ID: <873b0amzvc.fsf@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> On my PC, besides the swap partition, I have one partition, hda1, for MS
>>> Windows and another five for Linux: hda6, had7, hda8, hda9, hda10.
>>>
>>> At the moment the `boot partition' is hda6 and I want it to be, say, hda9.
>>> Sorry if I can'y use the right words. Maybe I should say that the hda6
>>> Grub boot loader is now installed to the master boot record of my hard
>>> drive whereas the hda9 boot loader is installed to the /dev/hda9 partition?
>>>
>>> I want to do so beacuse: now I'm still using Debian Sarge, which is
>>> installed in hda6; I want to install Debian Etch in hda9; then when I'm
>>> sure that everything is all right with Etch I want to boot from hda9, so
>>> hda6 can be formatted again.

Bob McGowan <bob_mcgowan@symantec.com> writes:

> If I understand correctly, you have Sarge on a partition that you want to
> preserve, while using a second partition on the same disk to install Etch.

Yes, that's right.

Can't find what you're looking for?

> Once you're happy with the Etch install, you'll redo the Sarge partition
> formatting to use with your new Etch install.

Well, no: once I'm happy with Etch (i.e., I've managed to install everything) I want to install hda9 grub boot loader to the master boot record of the hard drive, so that I can format hda6 when I need to (maybe to install Debian 4.1? :)).

> But you mentioned 5 partitions for Linux, the above is only two, so what are
> the other 3 used for? Will you need any of them for the Etch part, are they
> used with Sarge, or used some other way?

In them other Linux systems are installed, to do tests (to test applications before installing them). Well, they're too many, I also want to resize them and eliminate some.

> You need the answers to the above, which will modify to some extent what you
> do. But I think what you do is simply install Etch, selecting hda9 as the
> partition to install (the / filesystem for Etch), plus any of the other
> partitions (or none) depending on the answer to the question.
>
> When you get to Etch's grub installation step, it will detect the Windows and
> Sarge installs and offer to setup grub in the master boot record for you. It
> should (if all works as expected) provide you with boot options for Windows,
> Sarge and Etch.
>
> [...]
>
> When you're happy with Etch (shouldn't take too long!-), you just edit the
> /boot/grub/menu.lst file for Etch to remove the section that boots Sarge and
> to
> change (if needed) the 'default' boot number to match the number position for
> Etch in the boot section (look for lines beginning with 'title', near the end
> of the file). Reformat hda6 and you're done.

Yes, I could do as you say, but I'd prefer keeping the hda6 boot loader to the mbr until Etch is complete in hda9.
Besides, I want to learn how to do all that because it may turn to be useful in other circumstances: e.g. when you want to install MS Windows *after* Linux, I suppose.

Thanks,
Rodolfo

Don't know where to look next?

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:17:46 +0200
From: Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@icfo.es> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: ipw3945d starts but not detecting the hardware...

Message-ID: <20070629171746.GA14289@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 07:32:15 +0200, bejnet wrote:
>
> I compiled from scratch - getting tar of ipw3945-1.2.1.tgz,
> ipw3945-ucode-1.14.2.tgz and ipw3945d-1.7.22.tgz.
>
> [b]# ps | grep ipw[/b]
> 3961 pts/0 00:00:00 ipw3945d
>
> [b]# lsmod | grep ipw[/b]
> ipw3945 174016 1
> ieee80211 43372 1 ipw3945
> firmware_class 9600 2 ipw3945,pcmcia
>
> for me iwconfig still doesn't show the hardware even though lspci shows.
>
> [b]# lspci -v | grep 3945[/b]
> 10:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network
> Connection (rev 02)
>
> [b]
> # iwconfig[/b]
> lo no wireless extensions.
>
> eth1 no wireless extensions.
>
> sit0 no wireless extensions.
>
>
> Using Debian 4.0 Etch. Please help.

What is the output of "dmesg | grep ipw"?

-- 
Regards,            | 
http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer
          Florian   |

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:22:56 +0200 From: Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@icfo.es> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: /dev/pts/ Message-ID: <20070629172256.GB14289@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Jun 29, 2007 at 10:02:29 +0200, Pol Hallen wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'd like use write and talk(d) in jail env.
> When an user is logged, his don't have any tty (tty: not a tty).
>
> I assume it's a /proc/ problem.
>
> In /proc/self/fd/ every users had a symblic links to own pts
>
> How can I create this in jail env?
>
> I did many and many attempt..
Did you bind-mount /proc to make it available inside the chroot jail? I use this in my /etc/fstab: /tmp /var/chroot/sid-ia32/tmp none bind 0 0 /dev /var/chroot/sid-ia32/dev none bind 0 0 /proc /var/chroot/sid-ia32/proc none bind 0 0 -- Regards, | http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer Florian |

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:32:46 +0000 From: "abdelkader belahcene" <abelahcene@gmail.com> To: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org> Subject: pb with locales Message-ID: <46688cb90706291032j6360238ai117b88278ad61d9c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline SGksCldoZW4gSSB0cnkgdG8gaW5zdGFsbCBhIHBhY2thZ2UgYSByZWNlaXZlIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dp bmcgIHdhcm5pbmcuIEkgYW0KdXNpbmcgdGhlIGZyZW5jaCBsYW5ndWFnZSBhbmQgdGhlIHF3ZXJ0 eSBrZXlib2FyZC4KCgpiZWxhIyBkcGtnLXJlY29uZmlndXJlIGxvY2FsZXMKcGVybDogd2Fybmlu ZzogU2V0dGluZyBsb2NhbGUgZmFpbGVkLgpwZXJsOiB3YXJuaW5nOiBQbGVhc2UgY2hlY2sgdGhh dCB5b3VyIGxvY2FsZSBzZXR0aW5nczoKICAgICAgICBMQU5HVUFHRSA9ICh1bnNldCksCiAgICAg ICAgTENfQUxMID0gKHVuc2V0KSwKICAgICAgICBMQU5HID0gImZyX0ZSLlVURi04IgogICAgYXJl IHN1cHBvcnRlZCBhbmQgaW5zdGFsbGVkIG9uIHlvdXIgc3lzdGVtLgpwZXJsOiB3YXJuaW5nOiBG YWxsaW5nIGJhY2sgdG8gdGhlIHN0YW5kYXJkIGxvY2FsZSAoIkMiKS4KbG9jYWxlOiBOZSBwZXV0 IGluaXRpYWxpc2VyIExDX0FMTCDvv73vv70gbGEgbG9jYWxlIHBhciBk77+977+9ZmF1dDogQXVj dW4KZmljaGllciAoIG1lYW5zIE5PIEZJTEUgRk9VTkQpIG91IHLvv73vv71wZXJ0b2lyZSBkZSBj ZSB0eXBlCgoKd2hlcmUgdG8gY2hhbmdlIGFuZCBmaXggdGhlIHBiCgp0aGFua3MKYmVsYQo=

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:20:57 +0200 From: Mathias Brodala <info@noctus.net> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: FileSystem Question Message-ID: <46854D89.3020801@noctus.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigBDD7A10740D4C6E72165BAF9" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigBDD7A10740D4C6E72165BAF9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi. Manon Metten, 29.06.2007 19:06:
> Now after saving for the fifth time, I realize that I had accidentally
> deleted some
> vital info. How can I retrieve that? I just open eg. .recycled/my_doc$A=
AB,
> copy
> the info that was not deleted at that time and paste it in my current d=
oc.
>=20
> Now here's my question: Is there a file system for GNU/Linux with a sim=
ilar
> feature? I would at least like to have my ~ partition to use such a fil=
e
> system.
Sounds like an ordinary backup or RAID to me. Regards, Mathias --=20 debian/rules --------------enigBDD7A10740D4C6E72165BAF9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGhU2JYfUFJ3ewsJgRAoG7AJ91HzlYLZi25evfqRqJQji2qSmDxACfedYa 5aT2vH2pqudlkzOKSDdSnVg= =TKkf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigBDD7A10740D4C6E72165BAF9--

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:22:48 -0400 From: Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: ipw3945d starts but not detecting the hardware... Message-ID: <20070629182248.GA633@digital-haze.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-action=pgp-signed Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 07:32:15AM +0200, bejnet wrote:
>
> I compiled from scratch - getting tar of ipw3945-1.2.1.tgz,
> ipw3945-ucode-1.14.2.tgz and ipw3945d-1.7.22.tgz.
>
> # ps | grep ipw
> 3961 pts/0 00:00:00 ipw3945d
>
> # lsmod | grep ipw
> ipw3945 174016 1
> ieee80211 43372 1 ipw3945
> firmware_class 9600 2 ipw3945,pcmcia
>
> for me iwconfig still doesn't show the hardware even though lspci shows.
>
> # lspci -v | grep 3945
> 10:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network
> Connection (rev 02)
>
> Using Debian 4.0 Etch. Please help.
>
Is there any reason you compiled from scratch when there are perfectly good debs available? Enable contrib and non-free in your sources.list and run aptitude install firmware-ipw3945 ipw3945-modules-`uname -r` ipw3945d Add ipw3945 to /etc/modules, and when you reboot your wireless should be working. At this point you can remove contrib and non-free from your sources.list if you wish (But you'll need to re-enable contrib each time you update your kernel, because you need to reinstall the ipw3945 modules) If you want to use what you compiled from source just install ipw3945d, I believe that is what you're missing to make your wireless work. - -- http://digital-haze.net/~pobega/ - My Website If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they restrict the use of these programs. - Richard Stallman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGhU34g6qL2BGnx4QRAsX/AKCjCl4uxD+uTBUHOGH/kBLd5Xc0eQCdEs/W yPvtb4UuGBr0YcfC9S0r8cA= =ZSwN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:13:16 +0200 From: sfantar <sfantar@snurf.info> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: archive corrupted ! Message-ID: <46854BBC.6090000@snurf.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan H wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 18:50:38 +0200
> Till Wimmer <g4-lisz@tonarchiv.ch> wrote:
>
>
>> Ah ok, i think this is a misunderstanding...
>>
>> The your archive file home-20-06-2007-05-55.tar.gz is corrupt, not
>> a single file in it.
>> "unexpected end of file" means that gzip cannot handle the zip file
>> correctly, not a file in it called "file". Gzip is a stream
>> compression, it doesn't know anything about the format of the file
>> it (de)compresses. Maybe you can extract parts of your file using
>> gzip -d -c | tar x.
>>
>
> Or maybe it is indeed a tar file but compressed with some other program (or not at all) and you're being misled by the .gz extension. Has happened to me, too.
>
> Use
>
> $ file home-20-06-2007-05-55.tar.gz
>
> to see what really is in this file, then proceed accordingly.
>
> --D.
>
>
>
I use tar (tar -cvvf) to compress this archive. It's not a file, it's an archive .tar.gz.

Confused? Frustrated?

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:18:05 +0200 From: sfantar <sfantar@snurf.info> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: archive corrupted ! Message-ID: <46854CDD.8060208@snurf.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martin Marcher wrote:
>
> hmm in my mind there were some sentences below :), anyway
>
> file reports that is indeed a gzipped tar? maybe just some extension
> weirdness...
>
> If it is a backup script test run it to be sure it doesn't do some
> redirection badness and simply creates corrupted files because it was
> told to.
>
>
I have any solution. -- Shams Fantar (http://snurf.info)

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:45:03 +0000 From: "Manon Metten" <manon.metten@gmail.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: FileSystem Question Message-ID: <5da176070706291145w5b447c71id542101d8d4eae95@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_63587_27298585.1183142703216" ------=_Part_63587_27298585.1183142703216 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 6/29/07, Mathias Brodala <info@noctus.net> wrote:
> Now after saving for the fifth time, I realize that I had accidentally
> deleted some
> vital info. How can I retrieve that? I just open eg. .recycled/my_doc$AAB,
> copy
> the info that was not deleted at that time and paste it in my current doc.
>
> Now here's my question: Is there a file system for GNU/Linux with a
similar
> feature? I would at least like to have my ~ partition to use such a file
> system.
Sounds like an ordinary backup or RAID to me. It's definitely no ordinary backup or RAID. It even works with a single hd. SFS takes care of all this. I don't have to backup anything. SFS just writes all subsequent copies of a file to different locations on the hd and moves the existing ones to .recycled (well, in fact it only updates the TOC). .recycled is just a hidden directory where all previous copies of a file are stored. This also means that in the rare case of a system crash when saving a file, I only lose that part of my work that was in memory only. The copy on disk remains untouched because only AFTER a new copy is written to disk (to a different location), the old copy will be moved to .recycled and the TOC will be updated. But in case of a crash during save, the new copy isn't finished and thus the old copy remains untouched and no TOC update is necessary. This whole process is completely hidden for the user. .recycled only comes to mind when I have to recover some data. Manon. ------=_Part_63587_27298585.1183142703216 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline <div>On 6/29/07, Mathias Brodala <<a href="mailto:info@noctus.net">info@noctus.net</a>> wrote: > Now after saving for the fifth time, I realize that I had accidentally > deleted some > vital info. How can I retrieve that? I just open eg. .recycled/my_doc$AAB, > copy > the info that was not deleted at that time and paste it in my current doc. > > Now here's my question: Is there a file system for GNU/Linux with a similar > feature? I would at least like to have my ~ partition to use such a file > system. Sounds like an ordinary backup or RAID to me. </div> It's definitely no ordinary backup or RAID. It even works with a single hd. SFS takes care of all this. I don't have to backup anything. SFS just writes all subsequent copies of a file to different locations on the hd and moves the existing ones to .recycled (well, in fact it only updates the TOC). .recycled is just a hidden directory where all previous copies of a file are stored. This also means that in the rare case of a system crash when saving a file, I only lose that part of my work that was in memory only. The copy on disk remains untouched because only AFTER a new copy is written to disk (to a different location), the old copy will be moved to .recycled and the TOC will be updated. But in case of a crash during save, the new copy isn't finished and thus the old copy remains untouched and no TOC update is necessary. This whole process is completely hidden for the user. .recycled only comes to mind when I have to recover some data. Manon. ------=_Part_63587_27298585.1183142703216--

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:53:35 +0200 From: Gerard Robin <g.robin3@free.fr> To: debian <debian-user@lists.debian.org> Subject: sound and twinkle Message-ID: <20070629185335.GA7250@free.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I know the bug #420138 (twinkle) but it's not fixed for me with a laptop ac= er aspire 5102wmli. My dist: unstable, kernel 2.6.18-4-amd64 apt-cache show twinkle | grep Vers: Version: 1:1.0.1-1 I encounter a problem when I launch twinkle, I get: Cannot access the ring tone device (ALSA: plughw:0,0) Cannot access the speaker (ALSA: plughw:0,0) Cannot access the microphone (ALSA: plughw:0,0) (by the way mocp doesn't work and vlc works but without sound) In the file /etc/esound/esd.conf there is by default : auto_spawn=3D0 and ps ax | grep esd gives: /usr/bin/esd -nobeeps If I put: auto_spawn=3D1 ps ax | grep esd gives: /usr/bin/esd -terminate -nobeeps -as 5 -spawnfd 23 and twinkle doesn't complain (and mocp and vlc work fine) I can call someone I hear him but he can't hear me in 99% of the cases and when I press "bye" twinkle freeze and the same sound is repeated continously. If I receive a call, when I answer, twinkle freezes.=20 I have two questions: 1 Is it a good idea to set auto_spawn to 1 ? 2 Why twinkle seems to work fine for someone and not for me ? tia --=20 G=E9rard

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:31:40 +0200 From: Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@icfo.es> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: backports Message-ID: <20070629183140.GA16547@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 10:25:05 +0100, Chris Lale wrote:
> Florian Kulzer wrote:
[...]
> > $ gpg --keyring /usr/share/keyrings/debian-keyring.gpg --keyring /usr/share/keyrings/debian-backports-keyring.gpg --check-sig 16BA136C
> > pub 1024D/16BA136C 2005-08-21
> > uid Backports.org Archive Key
> > sig! 7E7B8AC9 2005-11-20 Joerg Jaspert
> > sig!3 16BA136C 2005-08-21 Backports.org Archive Key
> > sig!3 16BA136C 2005-08-21 Backports.org Archive Key
> > sub 2048g/5B82CECE 2005-08-21
> > sig! 16BA136C 2005-08-21 Backports.org Archive Key
> >
> [..]
>
> Thanks, Florian.
>
> I suppose that you can check that Joerg Jaspert is a Debian developer by
> checking the Debian developer database [1].
>
> [1] http://db.debian.org/
It cannot hurt to check in the database and compare the key fingerprint, but this does not really increase security. (There is no protection against a man-in-the-middle attack when you connect to the database with normal http.) The relevant fact, in my opinion, is that his key is on the official Debian keyring. You can tell gpg to explicitly list the keyring for a known key if you want to be sure: $ gpg --keyring /usr/share/keyrings/debian-keyring.gpg --list-options show-keyring --with-fingerprint --list-key "Joerg Jaspert" Keyring: /usr/share/keyrings/debian-keyring.gpg ----------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/7E7B8AC9 2002-05-11 Key fingerprint = DF7D EB2F DB28 FD2B A9FB FA6D 715E D6A0 7E7B 8AC9 [ rest of output deleted ] Another thing that increases trust is how many other Debian developers have signed his key. (This means that he had to show them some official photo ID.) This command produces a lot of output: $ gpg --no-default-keyring --keyring /usr/share/keyrings/debian-keyring.gpg --check-sigs 7E7B8AC9 -- Regards, | http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer Florian |

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:04:28 -0600 From: TW <twilliams001@elp.rr.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: No Internet, but Email Message-ID: <4685035C.1030706@elp.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Maybe it's just my day. I'm trying to get onto the internet but I can't. I do netstat and see that I'm receiving packets. I'm able to get on email (obviously). Did I mess something up? It happened after I did the chkrootkit command. I don't think this is on the IP's end. Anyone know what I messed up? Thanks. ~Telly

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:54:42 -0400 From: Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: RTF - proprietary or open? Message-Id: <20070629155442.2e52e5c4.celejar@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:23:20 +0300 ndemou@gmail.com wrote:
> On 6/28/07, Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:13:38 +0300
> > ndemou@gmail.com wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > anyway, IMHO: even if RTF is "open" under some interpretation it's not
> > > to be used as a critical component of OS SW. You will have noticed
> > > already that it's hard to find the license for the implementation of
> > > RTF. Have you? Hundreds of pages of technical documentation and no
> > > license makes me nervous and it's *THE* reason for me not to use RTF
> > > when the licensor is a company like Microsoft and I want to help it's
> > > main competitor.
> >
> > Understood. OTOH, a leading OSS product (Abiword) recommends RTF for
> > document exchange, and that counts for something to me.

>
> if you are referring to link #2 in your original post then keep in
I'm also referring to the (current?) documentation, which states:
> Rich Text Format
>
> Rich Text Format, or RTF, is a file format that contains all the formatting information about your file, and which can be read by almost all word processors. This is the format you should use if you need to send a file to someone who doesn't use AbiWord. 'Rich Text Format for old apps' is an older version of RTF, but applications have to be very old to need it. You should use normal RTF unless you know that you need to use the older version.

> mind two things:
> 1) it was made in 2003 - ODF was not around at the time
IIUC, it was around, although it wasn't formally adopted as an OASIS standard until 2005. After all, the thread I cite in that note refers to OASIS / XML.
> 2) he (Dom Lachowicz) seems to be the type of guy that I use this
> phrase to describe: "technical matters are far more important than
> legal ones".
> So he sees things from that very specific point of view. That's good
> if you want "the damn thing[1] to just work" but it's bad if you want
> "the damn thing to serve the community for a long time". The times
> have changed and we can't ignore legal issues any more. If microsoft
> offers no clear/solid commitment regarding what we can and what we can
> not do with their specifications then we should be searching for
> alternatives as soon as possible. In between you may use the spec as
> long as you don't get very dependent to its usage because some day you
> may very well read some threats in the press about the hundreds of
> patents/terms/IP rights or whatever Microsoft thinks your usage
> violates
Thanks, I understand your points.
>
> [1] a way to exchange documents with us much people as possible
Celejar -- mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator End of debian-user-digest Digest V2007 Issue #1868 ************************************************** Received on Fri Jun 29 16:16:05 2007

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