Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 08:08:29 -0700
From: Arthur Barlow <arthurbarlow@earthlink.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Aptitude slow package initialization
Message-Id:
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
I'm running unstable on a x86 machine. About a month ago Aptitude
recommended uninstalling itself, which I overrode for awhile then one
day decided to let it do it, thinking I could reinstall it. Well, I
was wrong. There was a dependency problem for awhile and it's only
been recently that I could reinstall it.
The problem now is that when I run it, it takes forever to do the
package initialization process. It's never been this slow before.
So I did an "apt-get clean", which made no difference. I also tried
an "apt-cache gencaches", which also made no difference. Anyone have
any suggestions?
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 17:20:33 +0200
From: Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: test
Message-ID: <87odiwup4u.fsf@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
test
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 17:56:27 +0200
From: Shams Fantar <sfantar@snurf.info>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: archive corrupted !
Message-ID: <4687CEAB.9010905@snurf.info>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Till Wimmer wrote:
> sfantar wrote:
>
>> I use tar (tar -cvvf) to compress this archive. It's not a file, it's
>> an archive .tar.gz.
>>
>>
> You said tar -cvf ? -c stands for "create", not compression... tar -cvzf
> would do a gzip compression. Maybe your archive isn't zipped at all.
>
> Till
>
>>
>
>
>
Oops, okay,
Thanks,
--
Shams Fantar (
http://snurf.info)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 17:43:36 +0200
From: Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@icfo.es>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Aptitude slow package initialization
Message-ID: <20070701154336.GA1010@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
On Sun, Jul 01, 2007 at 08:08:29 -0700, Arthur Barlow wrote:
> I'm running unstable on a x86 machine. About a month ago Aptitude
> recommended uninstalling itself, which I overrode for awhile then one day
> decided to let it do it, thinking I could reinstall it. Well, I was wrong.
> There was a dependency problem for awhile and it's only been recently that
> I could reinstall it.
>
> The problem now is that when I run it, it takes forever to do the package
> initialization process. It's never been this slow before. So I did an
> "apt-get clean", which made no difference. I also tried an "apt-cache
> gencaches", which also made no difference. Anyone have any suggestions?
Aptitude seems to have a problem with the newest version of apt
(0.7.2-0.1). You can find a bit more information in bug report #428616,
especially the follow-up message by Daniel Burrows (the author of
aptitude). The message sounds like it might take a bit until a fix will
be available. (Daniel posts regularly on this list; maybe he will join
in with more information.) The new version of aptitude which depends on
the new apt was a binNMU (binary non-maintainer upload) which closes the
dependency bugs (and allowed you to install aptitude again), but it did
nothing to fix the start-up delay.
I ran into this earlier today (on amd64). I simply downgraded both apt
and aptitude to the testing versions and then used "forbid version" on
aptitude to lock my system into that state for the time being.
Something like this should work (provided you have "testing" lines in
your /etc/apt/sources.list):
apt-get install {apt,aptitude}/testing
You might have to include more packages in the downgrade, depending on
which other apt tools you have installed. Just run the command and if
apt-get wants to remove some other packages then you can cancel the
operation and try again with these additional packages included. In my
case I ended up doing this (otherwise I would have lost apt-listbugs and
apt-listchanges):
apt-get install {apt,apt-utils,aptitude,libapt-pkg-perl,python-apt}/testing
--
Regards, | http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer
Florian |
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 17:34:59 +0100
From: Pigeon <pigeon@pigeonsnest.co.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Forcing Postfix SMTP client to use AUTH LOGIN
Message-ID: <20070701163459.GC2360@schnellbox.pigeonloft>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ"
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--rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
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I am trying to get Postfix (2.3) to relay mail via an upstream server
running exim 4.60.
The exim server requires SMTP AUTH and in response to EHLO advertises
that it supports both AUTH PLAIN and AUTH LOGIN. However, it is
broken. AUTH PLAIN doesn't work, only AUTH LOGIN works.
I have verified this both by setting up kmail to send via the exim
host and by logging in by hand using telnet. In both cases, the exim
server refuses to accept the username and password sent via AUTH
PLAIN, but happily accepts the same username and password with AUTH
LOGIN.
However I do not seem to be able to tell postfix to use AUTH LOGIN.
I have "mech_list: LOGIN" in smtpd.conf but the log files reveal that
it is still using AUTH PLAIN.
How do I force postfix to use AUTH LOGIN when it seems determined to
ignore my smtpd.conf?
--=20
Pigeon
Be kind to pigeons - - Pigeon's Nest: http://pigeonsnest.co.u=
k/
GPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=3Dget&search=3D0x21C61F7F
--rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ
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=tH19
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ--
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 12:30:10 -0400
From: C Sights <csights@fastmail.fm>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: conflict between powersaved and kpowersave
Message-Id: <200707011230.10184.csights@fastmail.fm>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Hi,
I was about to submit this bug to kpowersave, but I thought I would ask here
if anyone had any help:
Package: kpowersave
Version: 0.7.2-3
Severity: normal
Hi,
There seems to be some conflict between whether kpowersave or powersaved
handles button presses. After suspending to RAM, then pushing the power
button, the computer wakes up then immediately suspends to disk.
I think powersaved is intercepting the power button event and hibernating the
computer. The computer wakes up normally if powersaved is not installed.
One oddity is that if I suspend to RAM using the kpowersave icon, then push
the power button, the computer wakes up normally without immediately suspend
to disk -ing.
Here is a table summarizing the observations:
with powersaved (powersaved default
configuration) ---------------------------------
Push FN+Standby
computer enters standby
Push power button
computer wakes up
then suspends 2 disk
with powersaved (powersaved default
configuration) ---------------------------------
activate suspend to RAM from kpowersave tray icon
computer enters standby
push power button
computer wakes up normally
no powersaved --------------------------
pushing FN+Standby
computer enters standby
push power button
computer wakes up
I would like to keep powersaved installed for when I'm not logged in to KDE,
but a graphical interface is also nice!
Thanks,
C.
--- System information. ---
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux 2.6.21
Debian Release: lenny/sid
990 testing localhost
990 testing ftp.uwsg.indiana.edu
980 testing localhost
50 unstable ftp.egr.msu.edu
25 feisty us.archive.ubuntu.com
25 edgy us.archive.ubuntu.com
--- Package information. ---
Depends (Version) | Installed
===========================================-+-=======================
kdelibs4c2a (>= 4:3.5.6-1) | 4:3.5.7.dfsg.1-1
libc6 (>= 2.5-5) | 2.5-9+b1
libdbus-1-3 (>= 0.94) | 1.1.1-1
libdbus-qt-1-1c2 (>= 0.62.git.20060814) | 0.62.git.20060814-2
libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.2) | 1:4.2-20070609-1
libhal1 (>= 0.5) | 0.5.9-3
libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.2) | 4.2-20070609-1
libxext6 | 1:1.0.3-2
libxss1 | 1:1.1.2-1
libxtst6 | 1:1.0.2-1
hal (>= 0.5.8.1) | 0.5.9-3
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 17:56:33 +0100
From: Pigeon <pigeon@pigeonsnest.co.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Forcing Postfix SMTP client to use AUTH LOGIN
Message-ID: <20070701165633.GD2360@schnellbox.pigeonloft>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hQiwHBbRI9kgIhsi"
Content-Disposition: inline
--hQiwHBbRI9kgIhsi
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
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On Sun, Jul 01, 2007 at 05:34:59PM +0100, Pigeon wrote:
> I am trying to get Postfix (2.3) to relay mail via an upstream server
> running exim 4.60.
>=20
> The exim server requires SMTP AUTH and in response to EHLO advertises
> that it supports both AUTH PLAIN and AUTH LOGIN. However, it is
> broken. AUTH PLAIN doesn't work, only AUTH LOGIN works.
>=20
> I have verified this both by setting up kmail to send via the exim
> host and by logging in by hand using telnet. In both cases, the exim
> server refuses to accept the username and password sent via AUTH
> PLAIN, but happily accepts the same username and password with AUTH
> LOGIN.
>=20
> However I do not seem to be able to tell postfix to use AUTH LOGIN.
> I have "mech_list: LOGIN" in smtpd.conf but the log files reveal that
> it is still using AUTH PLAIN.
>=20
> How do I force postfix to use AUTH LOGIN when it seems determined to
> ignore my smtpd.conf?
Doh! It's like waiting for a bus, as soon as you give up patience and
light a cigarette, along comes the bus. Or in this case, the useful
google hit.
The answer is to include
smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter =3D !plain, static:rest
in /etc/postfix/main.cf
--=20
Pigeon
Be kind to pigeons - - Pigeon's Nest: http://pigeonsnest.co.u=
k/
GPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=3Dget&search=3D0x21C61F7F
--hQiwHBbRI9kgIhsi
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Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 18:21:34 +0100
From: Pigeon <pigeon@pigeonsnest.co.uk>
To: Allan Wind <allan_wind@lifeintegrity.com>
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Forcing Postfix SMTP client to use AUTH LOGIN
Message-ID: <20070701172134.GE2360@schnellbox.pigeonloft>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5QAgd0e35j3NYeGe"
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--5QAgd0e35j3NYeGe
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On Sun, Jul 01, 2007 at 12:57:54PM -0400, Allan Wind wrote:
> On 2007-07-01T17:34:59+0100, Pigeon wrote:
> > How do I force postfix to use AUTH LOGIN when it seems determined to
> > ignore my smtpd.conf?
>=20
> All paths relative to /etc/postfix. Ensure you have something like this =
in main.cf:
>=20
> smtp_sasl_auth_enable =3D yes
> smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter =3D login
> smtp_sasl_password_maps =3D hash:/etc/postfix/sasl_password
>=20
> and an entry for the remote server in sasl_password. My requirement is=20
> that mail is relayed via localhost:1025 (and $USER, $PASSWORD replaced=20
> with actual values) and just telling you so you have an example:
>=20
> [127.0.0.1]:1025 $USER:$PASSWORD
Thanks... it was smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter that was the key, I
already had the rest of SMTP AUTH working for non-broken hosts.
Having searched Google for fruitless hours I asked the list and then
Google produced five minutes later... Sod's law strikes again... but
thanks anyway!
--=20
Pigeon
Be kind to pigeons - - Pigeon's Nest: http://pigeonsnest.co.u=
k/
GPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=3Dget&search=3D0x21C61F7F
--5QAgd0e35j3NYeGe
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: Digital signature
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Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 13:10:57 -0400
From: Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Totem restarting xorg (continued)
Message-ID: <20070701171057.GA5310@nitpicking.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
I just switched from totem-xine to totem-gstreamer. The third time I used
it, xorg restarted.
I believe I've noticed a pattern: it only seems to happen if I have a
playlist longer than one file. One file, no matter how long, doesn't seem
to cause a restart.
--
Carl Fink nitpicking@nitpicking.com
Read my blog at nitpickingblog.blogspot.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 12:57:54 -0400
From: Allan Wind <allan_wind@lifeintegrity.com>
To: Pigeon <pigeon@pigeonsnest.co.uk>
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Forcing Postfix SMTP client to use AUTH LOGIN
Message-ID: <20070701165754.GG25048@lifeintegrity.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
On 2007-07-01T17:34:59+0100, Pigeon wrote:
> How do I force postfix to use AUTH LOGIN when it seems determined to
> ignore my smtpd.conf?
All paths relative to /etc/postfix. Ensure you have something like this in main.cf:
smtp_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter = login
smtp_sasl_password_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sasl_password
and an entry for the remote server in sasl_password. My requirement is
that mail is relayed via localhost:1025 (and $USER, $PASSWORD replaced
with actual values) and just telling you so you have an example:
[127.0.0.1]:1025 $USER:$PASSWORD
/Allan
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 21:19:39 +0300
From: Jabka Atu <mashrom.head@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: how to tunnel all network to a specific ssh season
Message-ID: <4687F03B.10400@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Good day,...
i have heared about tunneling specific programs with ssh (setting up
firefox and gaim azureus
<http://freebsdcluster.org/%7Elasse/sshazureustunnel/> to use ssh) but
i wish more :
i need to find a way to take all my network transfer and tunnel them
to a spesific ssh season:
for example i have a pc that connected to the internet (for example
the IP will be 84.84.84.84)
this pc uses debian Lenny with sshd started on it.
i take a client pc and do:
Code:
ssh -2 -R 7654:localhost:7654 -A -D 1080 user@84.84.84.84
but now i need to make each program to use socks proxy server/
what i wish to do is to same how tunnel all connections to the ssh
seasion.
i guess i should create a rule to iptable to send all connection
attempts to that port but im not sure :
1.how to do that with iptables (rule that will forward all connections
to spesific port on the client)
2.that this is the right solution
P.s.
client :
Acer 5102 Wlmi running sid amd64.
Server :
Lenny i386.
--
--
Could you at least use man ?
Jabka Atu (aka mha13/Mashrom Head)
--
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 18:34:17 +0000
From: "Manon Metten" <manon.metten@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: FileSystem Question
Message-ID: <5da176070707011134n1c96130fh9f4511abb4f9815a@mail.gmail.com>
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boundary="----=_Part_75994_12041083.1183314857943"
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Hi William,
On 6/30/07, William Pursell <bill.pursell@gmail.com> wrote:
Keep in mind that CVS is extremely old, and entirely obsolete.
> Subversion was a new implementation of the same idea, and
> did in fact address many of CVS's shortcomings. However,
> if you are going to look into using a VCS (Version Control
> System) for doing backups like this, look into git.
> http://git.or.cz
>
Thanks for the tip. I will check this out too before I make a final
decision.
Manon.
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Hi William,<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 6/30/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">William Pursell</b> <<a href="mailto:bill.pursell@gmail.com">bill.pursell@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Keep in mind that CVS is extremely old, and entirely obsolete.<br>Subversion was a new implementation of the same idea, and<br>did in fact address many of CVS's shortcomings. However,<br>if you are going to look into using a VCS (Version Control
<br>System) for doing backups like this, look into git.<br>http://git.or.cz<br></blockquote></div><br><br>Thanks for the tip. I will check this out too before I make a final<br>decision.<br>
<br>Manon.<br><br>
------=_Part_75994_12041083.1183314857943--
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 12:39:11 -0600
From: bob@proulx.com (Bob Proulx)
To: Ivan Glushkov <glushkov@mail.desy.de>
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: debian kernel
Message-ID: <20070701183911.GA15903@dementia.proulx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Ivan Glushkov wrote:
> I want to compile the newest (2.6.21.5) kernel on my Debian lenny
This is a little dated now that Etch has released, it was written for
Sarge, but it is still very good recommended reading for building
kernels on Debian. I offer it as additional reference.
http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/system/kernel-pkg.html
> Centrino laptop. In http://kernel-handbook.alioth.debian.org (2.2) is
> stated that the kernel offered in Debian repository is:
>
> "obtained by taking the source from linux-major_version.orig.tar.gz
> (that is, pristine kernel source, processed by the prune-non-free
> script) and applying a set of Debian patches. These patches typically
> implement essential fixes for serious bugs and security holes."
>
> Are the essential fixes supplied by the debian patches the same as the
> kernel.org ones,
Generally the patches indicated there are security fixes into the
stable kernel. The stable kernel in Etch is now at 2.6.18 and will
remain so throughout the stable release lifetime. As critical
problems are found they will be added as patches to that kernel.
For the most part if you are building the very latest pristine kernel
from kernel.org then you won't need the Debian security patches
because they would mostly be already in the new kernel.
However Debian patches have in the past also included new features
that were not in the mainstream kernel.org kernel. Usually they
appeared in other well known kernel branches. For example previous
Debian patches included the ability to use a compressed initrd
(initial ramdisk) at boot time. This is now standard in the upstream
kernel.org kernel. I am not current on the present state of the
Debian patches and so can't comment on whether a particular feature
you need will be there or not. You might as well try it and worry
about it only if it fails for you.
For example, IIRC and other caveats since I am not current on this
info, the encrypted filesystem supported was previously supplied as
patched modules loaded in the initrd. This required both an mkinitrd
that was programmed with the knowledge of encrypted filesystems and
the modules to be present for that kernel. If special patched
features such as these were used then trying to boot a kernel without
the patched in support for that feature would fail. But for a fairly
generic system with a fairly generic installation a pristine
kernel.org kernel can certainly be compiled without any patches and
work fine. A large population of Linux users only use upstream
kernels from kernel.org.
The summary of my comments is that generally the pristine kernel.org
kernel should always be okay. Unless you are using a special feature
that has been added in as a patch in which case you will need that
feature patched in of course.
> or it is simply coincidence that the latest version number of the
> kernel.org kernel (2.6.21.5) and the debian one (2.6.21-5) are the
> same? And if not, can I apply them to my kernel.org kernel?
In most cases you should be able apply the Debian patches directly to
the kernel.org kernel. Since the patch tree that you are looking at
is matching the kernel version it should be okay.
> In the end which approach will give me the kernel with the latest
> security patches?
Today? Tomorrow? Or next week? If you build your own kernel from
the upstream sources *you* become the distributor of it and will need
to keep aware of security issues relating to it. The security of the
kernel is directly dependent of your ability to keep aware of issues
and to react to them.
For concerns about security I recommend the Debian Stable kernel
currently Etch. This is 2.6.18 in Etch and it includes security
upgrades as they become available. This provides a large benefit
because of the shared team of people who help out with that kernel.
Bob
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 15:04:28 -0400
From: Roberto =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=2E_S=E1nchez?= <roberto@connexer.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: triyng to setup pam-ldap..
Message-ID: <20070701190428.GB31762@santiago.connexer.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50"
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On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 03:31:22PM +0100, Jaime Ventura wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm triyng to setup pam-ldap so I can use it with sshd.
> Where is what I get from sshd -d, while trying to login:
>=20
What do you have in /etc/pam.d/ssh, /etc/ssh/sshd_config,
/etc/nsswitch.conf, /etc/libnss-ldap.conf and also /etc/pam_ldap.conf?
Regards,
-Roberto
--=20
Roberto C. S=E1nchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com
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Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 11:49:31 -0700
From: Helen Easthope <heleneasthope@shaw.ca>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: gatos with etch and the ATI 3D Rage II+DVD
Message-id: <4687F73B.4000106@shaw.ca>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
I have an ATI 3D Rage II+DVD in a machine running etch
and 2.6.18-4-686. Before I waste too much time investigating
blind alleys, can anyone tell me whether gatos will work
or not? If it will work, any tips will be appreciated.
Thanks, ... Helen E.
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 13:58:01 -0500
From: Cousin Stanley <cousinstanley@hotmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: FileSystem Question
Message-ID: <1183316281_43301@sp6iad.superfeed.net>
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> I was (and I suppose still am) a huge fan of subversion.
> I loved RCS, hated CVS, and found subversion to be a God-send
>
> I started using git about 3 weeks ago ....
> ....
William ....
Under Debian Etch I see the following packages listed ....
git-arch
git-core
git-cvs
git-svn
Which git package are you using ?
From your comments I'm guessing it's not the cvs variety .... :-)
I've never used any of the versioning systems
and am curious to investigate ....
--
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona
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Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 19:27:52 +0000
From: "Oscar Blanco" <orblancog@gmail.com>
To: debian@fantasymail.de
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[HS]_Brancher_2_=E9crans_sur_une_carte_graphique?=
Message-ID: <dc461920707011227p4db5e259o2219575f362bc90b@mail.gmail.com>
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Sorry, could you translate into English. I think English is the official
language list. I'm an Spanish speaker so I do understand some of your
sentences in French, but not all the text, yet.
Kind regards.
--=20
Oscar Blanco Garc=EDa
Ingeniero Electr=F3nico - Universidad Nacional de Colombia
Tel=E9fono: Casa: +57 1 687 0019
Celular: +57 3133890451
Carrera 123B # 131-66 Bloque 55 Apartamento 402
Bogot=E1, Colombia
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Sorry, could you translate into English. I think English is the official la=
nguage list. I'm an Spanish speaker so I do understand some of your sen=
tences in French, but not all the text, yet. <br><br>Kind regards.<br><br>
-- <br>Oscar Blanco Garc=EDa<br>Ingeniero Electr=F3nico - Universidad Nacio=
nal de Colombia<br>Tel=E9fono: Casa: +57 1 687 0019<br> &n=
bsp; Celular: +5=
7 3133890451<br>Carrera 123B # 131-66 Bloque 55 Apartamento 402<br>Bogot=E1=
, Colombia
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End of debian-user-digest Digest V2007 Issue #1875
**************************************************
Received on Sun Jul 1 15:53:53 2007