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debian-user-digest Digest V2007 #2479

From: <debian-user-digest-request(at)lists.debian.org>
Date: Wed Sep 26 2007 - 14:03:48 EDT


Content-Type: text/plain

debian-user-digest Digest Volume 2007 : Issue 2479

Today's Topics: 

  Re: Repost of some earlier described  [ Andrei Popescu  ]
  Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was  [ Ron Johnson  ]
  Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues  [ Andrew Sackville-West  ]
  Re: Tool for document management      [ David Brodbeck 
  Re: Repost of some earlier described  [ Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcgloba ]



Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:21:02 +0300


From: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"
Message-ID: <20070926172102.GA10571@think.homenet>
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On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 11:53:03AM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:


Do you need help?X
> I'd have to check. I know it was installed within the last
> couple of years. Actually, looking back in my e-mail records,
> it was probably in Sep 2005. I don't think it has been updated
> much if any since then. I updated her Thunderbird to 2.0.0.6
> just the other day, but I don't see any reasonable possibility
> to USB incompatibilities being resolved by that.

[...]


>> How current is her Debian install?
>
> From stable, but a little old.

=46rom what you're saying I think she is running oldstable (sarge) and not=
=20


stable (etch). It could make a big difference as etch has kernel 2.6.18=20
as opposed to 2.6.8 (or the default 2.4).



Regards,


Andrei


--=20


If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)



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Do you need more help?X

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:06:21 +0200


From: Peter Robinson <peter.robinson@t-online.de>
To: judd@wadsworth.org


Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

Message-ID: <46FA918D.5080306@t-online.de>
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judd@wadsworth.org wrote:

> On 26 Sep, Peter Robinson wrote:
>
>  =20
>>> ...
>>>      =20
>  =20
>  =20
>> If you write in latex you can always convert to RTF via latex2rtf,
>> which in my experience works excellently. If needed, it is no big
>> deal to convert this to word format. It is definitely worth the
>> effort to learn latex.
>> cheers, peter
>>
>>
>>    =20
>
>      I disagree.  I use latex for some articles which are submitted to
> scientific journals, but for the type of writing which Steve has
> described, Oo.org is fine, with no learning curve, and he can output it
> to .doc or.rtf as necessary.  If he wants to have an index, or
> bibliograpy, footnotes, etc. in the book, it=B4s definitely worth learn=

ing

> to use latex or some variant.
>
>      If revision history, etc, is necessary or really desirable, using=20
> lyx and subversion, as other posters suggested, might be a good way to
> go; I haven=B4t used lyx myself for several years, so I=B4m dont=B4t kn=

ow how

> easy it would be for him to use.
>  =20

I write all my texts in latex, use JabRef/bibtex to manage references,=20
subversion to keep track of things and to collaborate with coauthors,=20
and -- if I need to submit to a journal misguided enough only to accept=20
word, latex2rtf.


Gone are the days of hundreds of different versions of a manuscript as=20
separate word files. Gone are the days when EndNote kept "loosing" my=20
references or word kept screwing up almost anything.
Things have become simply EASIER and I have more time to do real work,=20
as opposed to secretarial/editorial chores.
The time I invested to learn all this has been repaid at least 50 times.
Even if Steve or others have different needs, I submit that they too=20
will benefit from latex/SVN etc for document management, the cost of=20
rethinking a few work steps is truly minor..



just my 2c :- }


-peter



> -Chris=20
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=

-

> |   Christopher Judd, Ph. D.                      judd@wadsworth.org   =

|

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=

-

>
>
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain
> confidential or sensitive information which is, or may be, legally
> privileged or otherwise protected by law from further disclosure.  It
> is intended only for the addressee.  If you received this in error or
> from someone who was not authorized to send it to you, please do not
> distribute, copy or use it or any attachments.  Please notify the
> sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this from your
> system. Thank you for your cooperation.
>
>
>
>  =20

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:06:37 -0500


From: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
To: Debian user list <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"

Message-ID: <46FA919D.1040409@sbcglobal.net>
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Can we help you?X

Gabriel Parrondo wrote:

> El mi=C3=A9, 26-09-2007 a las 01:17 -0500, Mike McCarty escribi=C3=B3:
>> Gabriel Parrondo wrote:
>>> El mar, 25-09-2007 a las 21:33 -0500, Mike McCarty escribi=C3=83=C2=B3=

:

>>> [snip of something I can't help with]
>>>> She can't associate multiple queues with a single printer,
>>>> but there is already another thread about that. There is
>>>> currently no work around, but there is hope that using the
>>>> CUPS I/F directly may work.
>>> Let us know when you try this out. I have several instances of each
>>> printer created in cups each one with different configuration
>>> (grayscale, color, color high quality) and it works great. Using gnom=

e.

>> Really? I worked on that repeatedly with no success. Works
>> great on my machine (different distro, however).
>=20
> Same printer?

No, not same printer.



>>  I wonder if we need to do a
>>
>> # apt-get update some-package
>=20
> The update command doesn't take any arguments.
>=20
> I'm not sure if you ever told us what model the printer is...

It's a relatively new HP printer. I don't happen to have
the model number on the top of my head.


> But for hp printers there is:
> hplip-ppds, hpijs-ppds, foomatic-db-hpijs, hpoj, linuxprinting.org-ppds=

.

>=20
> You could also try with:
> apt-cache search ppd

Ok.


>=20
> Does she have windows installed? I usually see people using ntfs
> partitions without having windows installed, I fail to understand why..=

.


Can't find what you're looking for?X

For many years this machine ran Windows NT. When she felt she
couldn't run NT any longer, and was tired of having not USB
support, she decided to try something else. I suggested trying
Linux again (she tried and didn't like RH 6.0) as it has come
a long way.



That disc is from before the Debian install.



Mike


--=20


p=3D"p=3D%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.


I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!



Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:12:29 -0500


From: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
To: Debian user list <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"

Message-ID: <46FA92FD.3010908@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 09:33:43PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
>> My GF installed a USB mouse, and her keyboard went away.
>> They work together with THE OTHER OS. IIRC (it's been
>> a while) using a debug startup allows us to get up to
>> a root login, and look around, but using ^D from there
>> makes the keyboard go away. I can't tell if this is
>> an X Window problem, or below that, or what. The current
>> work around is to use an old PS/2 style mouse. The symptoms
>> are just as if the keyboard were unplugged. There is no
>> response whatsoever.
> 
> Is this mouse plugged into the same troubling hub?

Well, it's not plugge in at all, at the moment :-)



At the time we encountered the issue, the hub had
not yet been purchased. So, no the "troubling hub"
is not the problem.


Don't know where to look next?X

[snip]


> Do you have enough USB ports on the rear of the box?  What about a few
> USB straight extension cords instead of HUBs.

Yes, that might work. She has two ports on the machine.
One is free. I did suggest that to her. She just wants
it to work.


>> She can't associate multiple queues with a single printer,
>> but there is already another thread about that. There is
>> currently no work around, but there is hope that using the
>> CUPS I/F directly may work.
>>
> 
> I've never tried CUPS.  Partly because of all the troubles people seem
> to have.  I've always had great luck with LPRng and apsfilter or LPRng
> and foomatic-printfilters (set up with foomatic-GUI if you like).  The
> first option is easier if apsfilter had the driver for your printer.
> The second lets you use a cups printer ppd.  LPRng does great with
> multiple queues.

I've never had a problem with CUPS on my machine, nor with the
GNOME I/F to it. On her Debian machine, I've had problems with
the GNOME I/F to CUPS.



[snip]


> 
> See your other answers re kernel options.
> 
> Is she running Etch up-to-date?  What CPU does this box have?

This is a dual Celeron MB with one Celeron installed, 1.7 or so
Gig clock.


Confused? Frustrated?X

Mike

-- 
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}

Call Pantek today for Open Source Technical Support at 1-877-546-8934 - 24/7/365X

Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:22:19 -0500
From: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?
Message-ID: <46FA954B.9090207@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Wayne Topa wrote:

> Mike McCarty(Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net) is reported to have said:
>> I've printed off the CUPS docu from their home page, and
>> I'll give the web or CLI another try tomorrow night. (If
>> she'll let me, that is :-)
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
> Your welcome, Mike.  One question.  With your GF having been into
> computers so long, why hasn't she asked for help from the list?
> Especially since you don't run Debian and she does.


She isn't into using computers as a hobby any more. She just
wants them to work. If the sw doesn't do what she wants more
or less right away, then she tosses it. I don't mean as in
needing to learn how to use it, I mean as in it doesn't work
as advertised pretty quickly. She doesn't want to fiddle with
it, she wants it to run.

Maybe Ubuntu or Kubuntu would have been a better choice. I've
never run either of them. But one of the things that she really
liked about Knoppix was that it was able to find and set up
all the hardware and run.


> BTW, I had more luck with the web interface then the CLI.  And I use
> the CLI for 98% of my work.


Ok, I'll take that as a hint.

Mike
-- 
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!



Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:26:42 +0200
From: Johannes Wiedersich <johannes@physik.blm.tu-muenchen.de>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX
Message-Id: <46FA9652.1070803@physik.blm.tu-muenchen.de>
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Steve Lamb wrote:

>     Your suggestion, no.  Johannes' constant harping, yes.  Especially when he
> starts engaging in strawman fallacies, ignoring things I am saying and
> flipping arguments my mixing unrelated things together.


Sorry again, I never intended intended to 'harp'. Others and myself were
just proposing alternative ways to your goal 'Tool for document
management'. You were starting to be picky and claiming this and that
requirement is not met by Latex, I have to use OOo. Your false
presumptions about the flexibility of latex triggered me trying to
clarify those issues that you got wrong.

If there is a problem than this: you don't just take the advice, you
claim that the advice is *unsuitable* to your problem, which it is not.
You are perfectly free to ignore advice that you personally don't want
to use, but instead you constantly claim that the advice is wrong.

Peace! In a free world everyone may use the tool he/she is comfortable
with.

Johannes
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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:27:45 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Stupid question (was Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges")
Message-ID: <46FA9691.8000700@cox.net>
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On 09/26/07 11:58, Mike McCarty wrote:

> Wayne Topa wrote:
>> Mike McCarty(Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net) is reported to have said:
>>>
>>> Ok, so how does one get a newer kernel, install it, and get
>>> all the memory available?
>>>
>>
>>
>> That question indicates, to me at least, that you don't know as much
>> about Debian as I thought you did.  That's not your fault, I 'assumed'
>> to much.  My answers, as well as others I think, assumed you knew more
>> than you do so were not as helpful as they might have been.  Yes, I do
>> recall that you run FC but I didn't realize it had become a turn-key
>> distro.  I haven't run RH since '92.
> 
> I know how to do the necessary admin with FC. Debian I'm much less
> capable with. I wouldn't call FC "turnkey". But it uses a completely
> different set of admin tools.


Why did you push Debian on her, when your expertise lies in FC?

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:34:35 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)
Message-ID: <46FA982B.6020405@cox.net>
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On 09/26/07 12:21, Steve Lamb wrote:

> Ron Johnson wrote:
>> You're saying that only stringent proponents get to define the usage
>> parameters of a system.
> 
>     No.  But their usage parameters are the only one that change significantly
> from what I'm working with now.  It's a matter of "drop the WYSIWYG and do the
> work in LaTeX" vs. "Save in a different format."  Saving in a different format
> does not fundamentally change the tool.  It would be like saying if Word
> were able to save in ODT it would be ok to use Word instead of OOo because of
> the file format it saves in.
> 
>     One has to change the tool so if one is advocating LaTeX because of the
> merits of LaTeX over WYSIWYG one cannot offer up WYSIWYG as a front end for
> LaTeX without invalidating the argument that it is superior.


And I just *totally* disagree with that line of thinking.

Since I don't think we will change each other's mind regarding this,
I think it should be dropped.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:52:48 -0700
From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?
Message-ID: <20070926175247.GQ17869@localhost.localdomain>
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On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 08:44:47PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:

> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 06:43:47PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
>>> Gabriel Parrondo wrote:
>>>> Why are you saying the version shipped with Debian is broken? Have you
>>>> tried it on other distros and it's different?
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> This is gnome, love it or leave it!
>>> Works on my distro. I can't get it to work with Debian.
>> what does it do Mike? details man!
>
> It's difficult to remember now, but what I recall was that
> I tried starting the GUI, and selected "Add new printer"
> or sth like that. When I tried to create the new instance,
> I was not allowed to select the one which was already
> there. It wanted me to enter a whole new connection,
> name, type, etc. Trying to create a new printer with
> a new name but the same connection was also refused.
> It appeared not to understand what I was trying to do.
> It seemed to think that it was some sort of error to try
> to associate multiple queues with one physical printer
> connection.


as we've discussed, this *does* work on my current, up-to-date sid
box. And my understanding is that it does work in CUPS in general and
has for a while. I suspect its a case of PEBCAK. :) You can definitely
set up another queue and you can do so for sure through the
localhost:631 interface. YOu have to review all the data from the
other instance of the printer as you have to re-enter it as if
creating the printer from scratch. BUt it should just work at that
point.=20

Also, you've mentioned this being an HP printer. Please confirm that
hplip and all its dependencies are installed. It sounds like she's got
an HP PSC something or other. I have installed and used three of these
printers of various models (1210, 1315 and mumble mumble) and they work
great using hplip. This is the same kind of printer that I used for
the above multi-queue testing.  Note that the printers do not (afaict)
allow you to specify the resolution through the gnome-cups-manager,
but it does allow you to specify the "printout mode" in the "advanced"
tab in the printer properties. The printout mode will allow you to
choose "draft" or "high-quality" as well as different color
options. Also the hplip toolbox will allow you to do all kinds of
things with the printer just like in the other os.=20

hth

A

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:53:51 -0700
From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Spamassassin and Exim4
Message-ID: <20070926175351.GR17869@localhost.localdomain>
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On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 09:05:00PM -0400, Daniel D Jones wrote:

> On Monday 24 September 2007 19:03:47 Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 06:40:58PM -0400, Daniel D Jones wrote:
> > > On Monday 24 September 2007 15:50:58 Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >
> > > I've reconfigured the file with your recommendations and restarted ex=

im.=20

> > > I'm still not getting any headers in any email, including obvious spa=

m.=20

> > > Not sure what's going on.  Do you know of any way to verify that ACLs=

 are

> > > actually running?
> >
> > I really don't know other than to see them show up in the logs
> > etc. Can you provide the pertinent part of exim4.conf? the entire ACL
> > section would be good.
>=20
> This last line was the clue that led me to getting everything straightene=

d=20

> out.  Feeling a little sheepish here, but the issue was that I was modify=

ing=20

> the split config files, but still had exim configured to use the monolith=

ic=20

> template.   Doh!
>=20
> Thanks for your assistance.


:)

A

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:38:05 +0100
From: michael <cs@networkingnewsletter.org.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: evolution 'mail' won't display times correctly
Message-Id: <229CD89D-86CA-47DA-B3AA-764CDD19DF35@networkingnewsletter.org.uk>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

I've had a look about but can't find a suitable solution so perhaps one
of you may be able to help.

When running evolution 2.10 (IIRC) I see that the
date for (eg) incoming messgaes is HH:MM AM/PM. How do I get this to be
in 24 hour format (instead of 01:01PM (is that how you would write it?!)
it says 13:01).

I've tried variants of
	LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8 /usr/bin/evolution
but with no joy. Anybody out there had more luck on this?

Thanks, Michael


Do you need help?X

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:39:28 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: False dichotomy (was Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX ...)
Message-ID: <46FA9950.1050407@cox.net>
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On 09/26/07 12:06, Peter Robinson wrote:
[snip]

> 
> I write all my texts in latex, use JabRef/bibtex to manage references,
> subversion to keep track of things and to collaborate with coauthors,
> and -- if I need to submit to a journal misguided enough only to accept
> word, latex2rtf.
> Gone are the days of hundreds of different versions of a manuscript as
> separate word files. Gone are the days when EndNote kept "loosing" my
> references or word kept screwing up almost anything.
> Things have become simply EASIER and I have more time to do real work,
> as opposed to secretarial/editorial chores.
> The time I invested to learn all this has been repaid at least 50 times.
> Even if Steve or others have different needs, I submit that they too
> will benefit from latex/SVN etc for document management, the cost of
> rethinking a few work steps is truly minor..


AbiWord.

Saves in a plaintext XML format somewhat similar to latex & lyx that
is perfectly suited for use with a vcs.

If he ever *needs* the extra features of latex/lyx, there's nothing
to stop him from using latex or lyx at that time.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:39:55 -0700
From: David Brodbeck <brodbd@u.washington.edu>
To: "Debian-user (debian help)" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Tool for document management
Message-Id: <79B10803-1E66-4C76-8A1B-F2092F4949B8@u.washington.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Sep 25, 2007, at 7:17 PM, John Hasler wrote:


> David Brodbeck writes:
>> TeX is awesome for writing books and scientific papers.  If you're
>> writing a letter to Grandma, though, OpenOffice is better suited.
>
> Now _that_ sounds like driving a semi truck to the supermarket to  
> pick up a
> bottle of milk.


Depends on your perspective, I guess.  It just feels like by the time  
I get all the preliminary verbiage TeX needs typed out, I could have  
written the whole letter in OO.  Also, looking at my copy of 'The Not  
So Short Introduction To LaTeX,' it's not clear to me what document  
class I'd use.  They're all going to be a bit clumsy and  
inappropriate.  It's not an "article", it's not a "report", and it's  
certainly not a "book"...



Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:45:39 -0500
From: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"
Message-ID: <46FA9AC3.3090205@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Andrei Popescu wrote:

> 
>>> How current is her Debian install?
>> From stable, but a little old.
> 
> From what you're saying I think she is running oldstable (sarge) and not 
> stable (etch). It could make a big difference as etch has kernel 2.6.18 
> as opposed to 2.6.8 (or the default 2.4).


 From stable as of Sep 2005.

Mike
-- 
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!

End of debian-user-digest Digest V2007 Issue #2479
**************************************************

Received on Wed Sep 26 14:04:17 2007

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