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debian-user-digest Digest V2007 #2480

From: <debian-user-digest-request(at)lists.debian.org>
Date: Wed Sep 26 2007 - 15:12:57 EDT


Content-Type: text/plain

debian-user-digest Digest Volume 2007 : Issue 2480

Today's Topics: 

  Re: Repost of some earlier described  [ Andrew Sackville-West  ]
  Re: Tool for document management      [ Neil Watson  ]
  Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues  [ Mike McCarty 

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:03:35 -0700


From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"
Message-ID: <20070926180335.GS17869@localhost.localdomain>
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On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 12:45:39PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:

> Andrei Popescu wrote:
>>>> How current is her Debian install?
>>> From stable, but a little old.
>> From what you're saying I think she is running oldstable (sarge) and not=

=20

>> stable (etch). It could make a big difference as etch has kernel 2.6.18 =

as=20

>> opposed to 2.6.8 (or the default 2.4).
>
> From stable as of Sep 2005.
Do you need help?X

Okay, I think a lot of your problems would be alleviated by an upgrade
to etch. Again, this is all predicated on the idea that she will give
you a little more time to do this stuff.=20



head over to www.debian.org and read up (at least browse through) the
upgrade notes for


etch. http://www.debian.org/releases/etch/i386/release-notes/

especially review:

http://www.debian.org/releases/etch/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html

and then edit /etc/apt/sources.list so that all references to 'sarge'
are replaced with either 'etch' or 'stable'. (note, if they already
read 'stable', then just review the release notes and proceed with the
below).



do a full upgrade:



aptitude (or apt-get) update


aptitude dist-upgrade



there are some stuff on the release notes that you need to pay
attention to and some things need to be done in a particular order, so
the above is really only the last step.=20



It will take a while, but when done, she'll be running 'etch' and
probably many of the problems will simply go away. Certainly a lot of
the printer issues will be resolved and the others may as well.=20


Do you need more help?X

hth.



A



ps. of course, back up etc.



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:05:28 -0700


From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"
Message-ID: <20070926180528.GT17869@localhost.localdomain>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;

Can we help you?X

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On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 12:58:20AM -0400, Celejar wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:50:44 -0500
> Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>=20
> > Ron Johnson wrote:
>=20
> [snipped the on-topic stuff]
>=20
> > > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
> > > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
> >=20
> > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
> > Teach a man to fish, and he'll sit in a boat and drink
> > beer for a day.
>=20
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2007/07/msg01537.html

heh heh heh. that was fun.



A



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Can't find what you're looking for?X

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:49:24 -0700


From: David Brodbeck <brodbd@u.washington.edu>
To: "Debian-user (debian help)" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)

Message-Id: <9A1CD9B3-1FE1-42FA-A65A-0B876BEB4647@u.washington.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Don't know where to look next?X

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On Sep 26, 2007, at 6:10 AM, judd@wadsworth.org wrote:

>      I disagree.  I use latex for some articles which are submitted to

> scientific journals, but for the type of writing which Steve has
> described, Oo.org is fine, with no learning curve, and he can  
> output it
> to .doc or.rtf as necessary.

Maybe I'm confusing threads.  I thought one of his requirements was  
searchability and version control.  Version control tools don't work  
well with OOo because, by design, it produces opaque binary files.



If I'm conflating two threads, than I apologize.



Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:09:55 -0700


From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: Debian may lose a user


Message-ID: <20070926180955.GU17869@localhost.localdomain>
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Confused? Frustrated?X

On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 06:39:37AM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:

>=20
> Yup.  And I for one appreciate our Debian Volunteer Overlords.  ;-)
>=20

In soviet russia, debian volunteers you!



A



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:52:45 -0500


From: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: Stupid question (was Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges")

Message-ID: <46FA9C6D.1010904@sbcglobal.net>
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Call Pantek today for Open Source Technical Support at 1-877-546-8934 - 24/7/365X

Ron Johnson wrote:

>> I know how to do the necessary admin with FC. Debian I'm much less
>> capable with. I wouldn't call FC "turnkey". But it uses a completely
>> different set of admin tools.
> 
> Why did you push Debian on her, when your expertise lies in FC?

"Push" is a four letter word :-)



I got her a bunch of LiveCDs, and she ran them. Of them all
she liked Knoppix and Kanotix the best. Since they are both
based on Debian, that is what I suggested. One of the things
she liked best was that both of them did an excellent job
of recognizing and setting up hardware with little interaction
with the user.



Fedora I would not recommend to anyone not interested in
eternally fiddling with the machine, broken interfaces,
and churn. It's for people whose hobbies include fiddling
with new installs and reloading.



I'm not into that, either, for these large machines.
When I finally upgrade to another release, it won't be
FC.



The reason _I_ installed FC was that I got an employment
contract, and was requested to build up a machine which
could dual boot WinXP and FC for test on multiple platforms.
Due to inertia and general laziness, I have not moved from
FC2, which in FC terms is REALLY ANCIENT.



I don't like it, but I also don't like reloading. :-)



And, I don't consider myself expert at FC admin, either.


Do you need help?X

Mike

-- 
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:13:04 +0300
From: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"
Message-ID: <20070926181303.GB10571@think.homenet>
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On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 12:45:39PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:

> Andrei Popescu wrote:
>>>> How current is her Debian install?
>>> From stable, but a little old.
>> From what you're saying I think she is running oldstable (sarge) and not=

=20

>> stable (etch). It could make a big difference as etch has kernel 2.6.18 =

as=20

>> opposed to 2.6.8 (or the default 2.4).
>
> From stable as of Sep 2005.


A new stable (etch) has been released early this year. There's already=20
an r1. sarge is now oldstable. And the differences are quite=20
significant.

Regards,
Andrei
--=20
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:55:28 -0600
From: "Chris Purves" <chris.purves@gmail.com>
To: "debian user" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: wireless keyboard encryption
Message-ID: <5c27911f0709261055y7e148c51v7c02d8946b75f0e2@mail.gmail.com>
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On 21/09/2007, Nate Duehr <nate@natetech.com> wrote:

>
> On Sep 20, 2007, at 11:51 AM, Chris Purves wrote:
>
> > On 20/09/2007, Gabriel Parrondo <g.parrondo@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> El jue, 20-09-2007 a las 10:23 -0600, Chris Purves escribi=F3:
> >>>
> >>> Is it possible to encrypt my wireless keyboard communication?  I
> >>> have
> >>> a Logitech EX110.  The included Windows software has this
> >>> feature, but
> >>> of course no linux drivers.
> >>
> >> Rare... how is it connected? Usually this kind of devices are
> >> hardware-only and transparently work as a standard device for the OS.
> >
> > The Logitech webpage is
> > http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard_mice_combos/
> > devices/154&cl=3Dca,en#
> >
> > The normal operation does work transparently.  There is a receiver
> > that plugs into the ps/2 ports.  Establishing initial connection is
> > through connect buttons on the receiver and keyboard and mouse.
> >
> > I ran the included SetPoint software in Windows and it had an option
> > for enabling encryption between the keyboard and receiver.  Perhaps,
> > once it is enabled, it will continue to be encrypted when I boot into
> > Debian.  I don't know if the software turns on a switch in the
> > hardware, or if it runs some driver that must be running in order to
> > get encryption.
>
> I've also seen this "enable encryption" option on my wireless
> keyboard at home.
>
> I think the more important question for the original poster is really
> -- how far away do you think your keyboard can be reliably received
> (just walk away from the computer and see where you can go... type
> things into a text editor like, "Now I'm on the stairs", "Now I'm in
> the kitchen", "Now I'm on the back porch", and then walk back and see
> what's on the screen.


Yes, that was a good suggestion.  The limit seems to be about 8 feet
in open air (with new batteries), so going through a wall would likely
kill the signal.


> Then do a sane risk-analysis.  If I can only reliably use it at X
> distance, how often will someone I don't trust be able to put a
> receiver capable of both receiving the data in whatever format it's
> in?  (Keeping in mind that the protocol used for the keyboard usually
> not well-documented, so it'd take some skill and knowledge to
> intercept it, or you'd have to disassemble a similar RF unit and
> reverse engineer a way to make it into a data-logger.)  A good
> exercise might be in TRYING to intercept your own keystrokes, and
> seeing how difficult it is for YOU to do it.  If it's a pain in the
> ass for you, then evaluate whether or not you're doing something so
> bad or have such a need for privacy that you can name anyone or any
> organization that would go to that effort to read your typing.
>
> If you can think of someone/something who'd want that data bad enough
> to get close enough, and do the work of figuring out how to capture
> it -- wireless keyboards probably weren't a good idea for you in the
> first place.


That's not my situation.  Considering the short range of the keyboard
and the difficulty involved in intercepting, the risk is very small.


> Security is as much about realistic risk-analysis as it is about
> "encryption for encryption's sake".  I'm not saying you shouldn't TRY
> to encrypt your keyboard traffic if the keyboard has the feature --
> but at some point there's a steep diminshing return on "security".
>
> Another thing to look at... are there easier ways you'd leak whatever
> it is that you're typing on your keyboard that someone smart would go
> after before trying to snoop your keyboard?  Could it be gathered any
> other electronic/technical way?  Could you fall for a social
> engineering "hack" easier and GIVE away what you're doing on that
> keyboard to someone you "thought you could trust"?  I bet there are
> ways that would have a much lower opportunity-cost lost to the
> attacker than trying to get your keystrokes from your wireless keyboard.
>
> If you're using a wireless keyboard out in public... that's a
> completely different story.  Again, wireless may not be the correct
> technical solution for you..  :-)
>


Thanks for your feedback, Nate.

--=20
Take care, eh.
Chris



Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:14:58 -0700
From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?
Message-ID: <20070926181458.GV17869@localhost.localdomain>
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On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 01:06:06PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:

> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> has for a while. I suspect its a case of PEBCAK. :) You can definitely
>> set up another queue and you can do so for sure through the
>> localhost:631 interface. YOu have to review all the data from the
>> other instance of the printer as you have to re-enter it as if
>> creating the printer from scratch. BUt it should just work at that
>> point.=20
>
> As I said, I'm going to try using the direct CUPS I/F tonight
> when I go over there. At present, I'm about 15 miles from
> the computer, so it's problematic to try stuff out :-)


I realise that, just posting up so that 1) others can keep track of
stuff we've discussed off-list and 2) so that I know you got the
message not knowing how/when you check email.

=2E..


>
> On my FC computer, I have six queues associated with my one printer,
> three different resolutions in color/greyscale. I'm going to spend some
> time looking at the CUPS web I/F on my machine, and seeing how it
> works before going over tonight.
>


good plan and good luck.

A

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:21:14 -0400
From: Ralph Katz <ralph.katz@rcn.com>
To: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Openoffice file takes a long time to open
Message-ID: <46FAA31A.3000201@rcn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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On 09/26/2007 11:02 AM, John O Laoi wrote:

> 
> 
> On 9/26/07, *Ralph Katz* <ralph.katz@rcn.com
> <mailto:ralph.katz@rcn.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Also check your disk i/o for swapping.  
> 
> 
> How do I do that?


Little ole me looks at the disk light. :)  Also, I have gkrellm
installed which can show graphically the disk usage.  (There is also the
systat package which I just found searching for -> monitor OR watch
"disk i/o" -> iostat -> search debian pkgs page for this command.)  And
of course top and free commands show swap space used/available.


>     Also, check whether any other unusual objects are embedded or called
>     somehow.  Perhaps some object is not loading, re-trying, and finally
>     timing out.  Just a guess...
> 
> 
> That is what has me baffled - there are no images or anything else in
> the file.
> It has some email addresses - maybe openoffice is trying to open an
> email application for each of these.
> John


Don't know, John, I'm just a simple user.  If it were me, I'd copy the
contents of the doc onto the clipboard, paste it into a text-only
editor, re-copy the now text-only data into a new OOo doc.  (This is
crude, but assures nothing surprising gets inadvertently copied.)  Now,
try the new doc.

Good luck!
Ralph



Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:06:04 -0400
From: Neil Watson <debian@watson-wilson.ca>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Tool for document management
Message-ID: <20070926180604.GF30292@watson-wilson.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 10:39:55AM -0700, David Brodbeck wrote:

>Depends on your perspective, I guess.  It just feels like by the time  
>I get all the preliminary verbiage TeX needs typed out, I could have  
>written the whole letter in OO


Once of the good things about TeX is that you only need to create that
preamble once for any single type of document.  I have a report
template.  When I want to write a new report I copy the template to the
name of the new report file, open it and start editing.  

As for classes, article and report are pretty similar.  I see no reason
not choose one arbitrarily and then change later if necessary.

-- 
Neil Watson             | Debian Linux
System Administrator    | Uptime 11 days
http://watson-wilson.ca

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:06:06 -0500
From: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?
Message-ID: <46FA9F8E.3000604@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

[snip]


> has for a while. I suspect its a case of PEBCAK. :) You can definitely
> set up another queue and you can do so for sure through the
> localhost:631 interface. YOu have to review all the data from the
> other instance of the printer as you have to re-enter it as if
> creating the printer from scratch. BUt it should just work at that
> point. 


As I said, I'm going to try using the direct CUPS I/F tonight
when I go over there. At present, I'm about 15 miles from
the computer, so it's problematic to try stuff out :-)


> Also, you've mentioned this being an HP printer. Please confirm that
> hplip and all its dependencies are installed. It sounds like she's got


I'll do that.


> an HP PSC something or other. I have installed and used three of these
> printers of various models (1210, 1315 and mumble mumble) and they work
> great using hplip. This is the same kind of printer that I used for
> the above multi-queue testing.  Note that the printers do not (afaict)
> allow you to specify the resolution through the gnome-cups-manager,
> but it does allow you to specify the "printout mode" in the "advanced"
> tab in the printer properties. The printout mode will allow you to
> choose "draft" or "high-quality" as well as different color
> options. Also the hplip toolbox will allow you to do all kinds of
> things with the printer just like in the other os. 


On my FC computer, I have six queues associated with my one printer,
three different resolutions in color/greyscale. I'm going to spend some
time looking at the CUPS web I/F on my machine, and seeing how it
works before going over tonight.

Mike
-- 
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!



Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:06:51 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"
Message-ID: <46FA9FBB.2060306@cox.net>
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On 09/26/07 13:03, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 12:45:39PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
>> Andrei Popescu wrote:
>>>>> How current is her Debian install?
>>>> From stable, but a little old.
>>> From what you're saying I think she is running oldstable (sarge) and not 
>>> stable (etch). It could make a big difference as etch has kernel 2.6.18 as 
>>> opposed to 2.6.8 (or the default 2.4).
>> From stable as of Sep 2005.
> 
> Okay, I think a lot of your problems would be alleviated by an upgrade
> to etch. Again, this is all predicated on the idea that she will give
> you a little more time to do this stuff. 
> 


Or... since Mike's expertise lays in FC, use that instead.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Do you need more help?X

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:22:01 -0500
From: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: GNOME: Associate multiple queues with one printer: HOW?
Message-ID: <46FAA349.3090103@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 01:06:06PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
>> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>>
> I realise that, just posting up so that 1) others can keep track of
> stuff we've discussed off-list and 2) so that I know you got the
> message not knowing how/when you check email.


'K


>> On my FC computer, I have six queues associated with my one printer,
>> three different resolutions in color/greyscale. I'm going to spend some
>> time looking at the CUPS web I/F on my machine, and seeing how it
>> works before going over tonight.
>>
> 
> good plan and good luck.


Thanks!

Mike
-- 
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:30:49 -0500
From: Mike McCarty <Mike.McCarty@sbcglobal.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Repost of some earlier described "challenges"
Message-ID: <46FAA559.70605@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

> 
> Okay, I think a lot of your problems would be alleviated by an upgrade
> to etch. Again, this is all predicated on the idea that she will give
> you a little more time to do this stuff. 


Ok.


> head over to www.debian.org and read up (at least browse through) the
> upgrade notes for


[...]


> It will take a while, but when done, she'll be running 'etch' and
> probably many of the problems will simply go away. Certainly a lot of
> the printer issues will be resolved and the others may as well. 
> 
> hth.


So do I :-)

And, of course, it may not help, even if it "helps". IOW,
her mind may (likely is) already made up.


> ps. of course, back up etc.


Oh, yes.

Mike
-- 
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!

End of debian-user-digest Digest V2007 Issue #2480
**************************************************

Received on Wed Sep 26 15:13:07 2007

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