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debian-user-digest Digest V2007 #2493

From: <debian-user-digest-request(at)lists.debian.org>
Date: Fri Sep 28 2007 - 00:49:12 EDT


Content-Type: text/plain

debian-user-digest Digest Volume 2007 : Issue 2493

Today's Topics: 

  Re: efficiency of windows managers    [ Ron Johnson  ]
  Re: efficiency of windows managers    [ Amit Uttamchandani  ]
  Re: efficiency of windows managers    [ Amit Uttamchandani  ]
  Nspluginwrapper on AMD64              [ "Sridhar M.A."  ]
  Re: efficiency of windows managers    [ Amit Uttamchandani 

Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:25:48 -0500


From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: efficiency of windows managers

Message-ID: <46FC4A0C.6060002@cox.net>
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On 09/27/07 18:58, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:

>> I have to say, the screenshot has me intrigued.  It's got a 
>> pleasingly geeky sort of retro text GUI look, like something
>> Xerox PARC might have come up with in the 1970s. ;)
>> 


> 
> It is very efficient. Especially tiling modes. I can't use any
> other Windowmanager now. I just can't. With DWM, you're focused
> on the application and the task at hand. Try it out.

With other WMs, you're not focused on the app and task?



  •   --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA



Do you need help?X

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!


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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:47:47 -0700


From: Amit Uttamchandani <atu13439@csun.edu>
To: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: efficiency of windows managers

Message-Id: <20070927174747.5c202fe4.atu13439@csun.edu>
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> 
> With other WMs, you're not focused on the app and task?
> 

Its hard for me to explain. I suggest you try it out. Of course, this is just my opinion and experiences. Just a suggestion.


-- 
Amit Uttamchandani 


Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:45:29 -0700
From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: efficiency of windows managers
Message-ID: <20070928014529.GZ4870@localhost.localdomain>
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On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 07:25:48PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:

> On 09/27/07 18:58, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:
> >> I have to say, the screenshot has me intrigued.  It's got a=20
> >> pleasingly geeky sort of retro text GUI look, like something
> >> Xerox PARC might have come up with in the 1970s. ;)
> >>=20
> >=20
> > It is very efficient. Especially tiling modes. I can't use any
> > other Windowmanager now. I just can't. With DWM, you're focused
> > on the application and the task at hand. Try it out.

>=20

> With other WMs, you're not focused on the app and task?


I've not used dwm but I assume its similar to wmii being written by
the same guys.=20

I agree with Amit. With other managers one spends a lot of time dealing
with manipulating the windows themselves -- maximizing, resizing,
shuffling them so they fit the way you want on the screen. I
personally find it particularly distracting if working on things
side-by-side: manipulating check registers while reading banking
websites; editing html while refreshing the page in a browser and so
forth. There are other instances where I find it distracting as
well.=20

With a keyboard oriented tiling WM a few things happen.=20

1) the initial placement and sizing of windows is completely out of
   your control (you can hack scripts to get things to default the way
   you want, but that is doable in just about any wm). You'll say that
   this is already the case, and its true, but the default is pretty
   sensibly different. Instead of splashing the new window up on the
   screen willy-nilly, the new window gets its own frame and its own
   piece of screen real-estate without interference from the
   others. Unless you specifically tell the wm that you want to stack
   windows on top of each other (that is, perpendicular to the plane
   of the screen), then it will *not* do that. So, for example, if I'm
   working in an x-term and I want another one, when it opens, the
   first one gets resized to half the screen and the new one gets the
   other half. Open another, and they each get squeezed into 1/3,
   etc. Its a little wierd at first, but after practice, it really
   begins to shine.=20

2) Manipulating windows is done from the keyboard. This is a huge
time/energy saver if you already are keyboard oriented. You never have
to leave the keyboard to get things organised the way you like. Its
similar to using screen. You toggle between windows with keystrokes,
resize windows with keystrokes, split the frame with keystrokes
etc. So that's all good, but the real beauty of this is that the WM
actually makes the decision about how to interpret your commands
(configurable, of course). When you tell it to move a window one
direction or another, it just does it and maximizes everything as much
as possible. There is *no* grabbing of frames, or toggle maximize or
anything like that.=20

3) this part answers your question... once you get used to it and get
it configured as you like it, your work method changes. (at least mine
does). I only ever have on the screen the things I'm currently working
on. I spend essentially no time manipulating windows as I've
configured it to behave the way I want in terms of window placement,
column and row size etc. I switch between tasks with ease without the
mouse. In short, I spend more, better focused, time on the work I'm
doing instead of the overhead of controlling the work environment.=20

I know that many WMs allow keyboard control, but something like wmii,
and I assume dwm, do it so much more simply and elegantly, it really
is amazing.=20

I will admit that they don't work so well with heavily mouse oriented
tasks (gimp for example), but for just about anything else, its
great. IMO.=20

A

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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:39:03 +0200
From: "Morgan Otto" <elcxxqjyn@3kings-casinos.com>
To: <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: lists.debian.org
Message-ID: <4393527593.3510366994@3kings-casinos.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Debian-user
try 7 hot sites for free
www tryherfree dot cn


Do you need more help?X

Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:19:12 -0500
From: "Mumia W.." <paduille.4061.mumia.w+nospam@earthlink.net>
To: Debian User List <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: efficiency of windows managers
Message-ID: <46FC64A0.9040908@earthlink.net>
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On 09/27/2007 03:41 PM, Manu Hack wrote:

> 
> I agree. :) But I'm still confused as to why KDE can outperform (at
> least up to my experience) a supposedly light weight wm (maybe
> windowmaker is not lightweight enough, will try fluxbox later) on the
> same machine.  Is that because of something like memory management or
> something like that?
> 
> The reason I'm asking is that I want to change because before I
> thought I can improve the efficiency by using a more lightweight wm
> but it turns out it's not true in my case.  So maybe as long as the
> memory is enough to use KDE (or GNOME), KDE can be faster than those
> lightweight wm because they use more memory?
> 
> Manu
> 
> 


The problem could be a software conflict. A couple of years ago I had a 
problem where gnome-panel would conflict with WindowMaker--causing the 
system to become sluggish. Perhaps other Gnome programs conflict with 
WindowMaker too.



Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:37:12 +0200 (CEST)
From: "s. keeling" <keeling@nucleus.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: How to reply in the mailing lists
Message-ID: <slrnffoq6o.bpn.keeling@heretic.nucleus.com>

Sid Arth <sidster802@gmail.com>:

>  Ahh you will have to excuse me, but what exactly is top posting and
>  what do you mean by trimming?
>  Ill try to fix it myself if I can.
> 
>  On 9/26/07, Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 06:12:50PM -0500, Sid Arth wrote:
> >
> > > or any other email client. Those two do everything I need them to do.
> >
> > Apparently they don't do any automatic proper email formating (no
> > top-posting and proper trimming).  You still have to do that yourself!


You sir, are a troll.  Good troll, too.


-- 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*)    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html      Linux Counter #80292
- -    http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html    Please, don't Cc: me.



Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:33:06 -0700
From: Amit Uttamchandani <atu13439@csun.edu>
To: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: efficiency of windows managers
Message-Id: <20070927193306.c2eacc45.atu13439@csun.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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I couldn't have explained it any better. I guess if I get asked, I will simply forward your explanation to them ;).



Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:58:13 -0700
From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: efficiency of windows managers
Message-ID: <20070928025812.GC4870@localhost.localdomain>
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On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 07:33:06PM -0700, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:

> I couldn't have explained it any better. I guess if I get asked, I will simply forward your explanation to them ;).


thanks. I've become sort of a wmii zealot in the last little
while. It's been fun. hope I didn't steal your thunder. :)

A

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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:13:10 +0200 (CEST)
From: "s. keeling" <keeling@nucleus.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Newbie help with simple C program, USB device under Debian
Message-ID: <slrnffosa6.bpn.keeling@heretic.nucleus.com>

Nick Lidakis <nlidakis@verizon.net>:

>  Kevin Mark wrote:
> >
> > Please refrain from your attacks. 'Be nice to folks' is a general rule.
> 
>  Your right. My apologies to Oleg and the list.


Quite right, and thanks.  Done it before myself and hope to minimize
its ocurrence in the future.

!@#$ happens.


-- 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*)    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html      Linux Counter #80292
- -    http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html    Please, don't Cc: me.



Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:46:56 +0530
From: "Sridhar M.A." <mas@mylug.org>
To: Debian Users <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Nspluginwrapper on AMD64
Message-ID: <20070928031656.GA15853@atman>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

Hello,

I am trying to run debian-amd64 sid on my new system and so far am very
happy with the relative ease of the installation process (thank you
developers).

I tried to install the flashplayer-mozilla|flashplayer-nonfree. Both
failed with the same message :

nspluginwrapper: no appropriate viewer found for /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so

I found the bug reported on bugs.debian.org and the comment of the
maintainer that this is probably due to a bug in chroot
package/environment. AFAICT, I do not have any chroot installs other
than that demanded by nspluginwrapper. The contents of the files in
/etc/ld.so.conf.d are :

libc.conf :
  # libc default configuration
  /usr/local/lib

x86_64-linux-gnu.conf :  
  # Multiarch support
  /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu
  /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu

Rerunning ldconfig, did not solve the problem. But, what surprises me is
this fact: nspluginwrapper depends on linux32, but it is not installed.
Trying to install linux32, apt wants to remove util-linux. I am pasting
the session below :

#: apt-cache policy linux32
linux32:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 1-3
  Version table:
     1-3 0
        500 http://ftp.debian.org unstable/main Packages
#: apt-get install nspluginwrapper
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following NEW packages will be installed
  nspluginwrapper
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 28 not upgraded.
Need to get 110kB of archives.
After unpacking 373kB of additional disk space will be used.
Get: 1 http://ftp.debian.org unstable/contrib nspluginwrapper 0.9.91.5-1 [110kB] ...


#: apt-get install linux32
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED
  util-linux
The following NEW packages will be installed
  linux32
WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed.
This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing!
  util-linux
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 1 to remove and 28 not upgraded. ...


The system appears not to honor the dependency requirement of
nspluginwrapper. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is this a bug in
apt|aptitude or nspluginwrapper?

Any pointers will be helpful.

Regards,

-- 
Sridhar M.A.     

The brain is a wonderful organ; it starts working the moment you get up
in the morning, and does not stop until you get to work.



Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:19:28 -0700
From: Amit Uttamchandani <atu13439@csun.edu>
To: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: efficiency of windows managers
Message-Id: <20070927201928.78054e1f.atu13439@csun.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


> 
> thanks. I've become sort of a wmii zealot in the last little
> while. It's been fun. hope I didn't steal your thunder. :)


Lol no not at all. You should give DWM a try. I think there are improvements over wmii. Also, there is a new fork from dwm called 'awesome' (yeah i know, apparently the name lives up to the hype). Haven't tried it but I will def check it out.

http://awesome.naquadah.org/

-- 
Amit Uttamchandani <atu13439@csun.edu>



Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:16:11 -0600
From: Dave Thayer <debian0727019.dmthayer@recursor.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: OT: Choice of OOo and LaTeX (Was: Tool for document management)
Message-ID: <20070928031611.GA4139@thayer-boyle.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 08:50:06AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:

>     I was quickly disabused of that misconception and was perfectly fine to
> not have versioning via normal textual means.  In fact I then switched my
> thinking to how to get OOo to save uncompressed or have the versioning
> software to handle OOo documents.  But if I can't get it versioned that's no
> big deal.
> 


This guy has a makefile which handles ODF packing and unpacking for
use in a versioning system:

http://clarencedang.blogspot.com/2006/12/another-script-revision-controlled.html
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/37o2bz>

HTH 

dt

-- 
Dave Thayer           | Whenever you read a good book, it's like the 
Denver, Colorado USA  | author is right there, in the room talking to 
dave@thayer-boyle.com | you, which is why I don't like to read 
                      | good books. - Jack Handey "Deep Thoughts"


Can we help you?X

Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:01:21 -0400
From: "Eric Estes" <Eric_Estes@aspensquare.com>
To: <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: FW: Slow Network Connection
Message-ID: <665B03CFBE2C1346A66B0CB9A9A0EE3803594E@ASM220.aspen.com>
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No mismatch.

Settings for eth1:
        Supported ports: [ TP MII ]
        Supported link modes:   10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full=20
                                100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full=20
        Supports auto-negotiation: Yes
        Advertised link modes:  10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full=20
                                100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full=20
        Advertised auto-negotiation: Yes
        Speed: 100Mb/s
        Duplex: Full
        Port: MII
        PHYAD: 1
        Transceiver: internal
        Auto-negotiation: on
        Current message level: 0x000020c1 (8385)
        Link detected: yes
localhost:/home/eric#=20


Settings for eth2:
        Supported ports: [ TP MII ]
        Supported link modes:   10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full=20
                                100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full=20
        Supports auto-negotiation: Yes
        Advertised link modes:  10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full=20
                                100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full=20
        Advertised auto-negotiation: Yes
        Speed: 10Mb/s
        Duplex: Half
        Port: MII
        PHYAD: 1
        Transceiver: internal
        Auto-negotiation: on
        Current message level: 0x000020c1 (8385)
        Link detected: no
localhost:/home/eric#=20

localhost:/home/eric# ifconfig
eth1      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:90:27:FC:A9:8E =20
          inet addr:10.2.250.27  Bcast:10.2.250.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::290:27ff:fefc:a98e/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:2160 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:2349 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000=20
          RX bytes:1894610 (1.8 MiB)  TX bytes:597331 (583.3 KiB)
          Interrupt:21=20

eth2      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:90:27:FC:A9:8F =20
          UP BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000=20
          RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)
          Interrupt:22=20

localhost:/home/eric#=20



-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Watson [mailto:debian@watson-wilson.ca]
Sent: Thu 9/27/2007 11:57 AM
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Slow Network Connection
=20
Do you have some sort of duplex mismatch?  Ethtool or mii-tool will
report duplex status and Ethernet speed.

--=20
Neil Watson             | Debian Linux
System Administrator    | Uptime 12 days
http://watson-wilson.ca


--=20
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org=20
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End of debian-user-digest Digest V2007 Issue #2493
**************************************************

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