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debian-user-digest Digest V2007 #2689

From: <debian-user-digest-request(at)lists.debian.org>
Date: Sat Oct 27 2007 - 19:40:34 EDT


Content-Type: text/plain

debian-user-digest Digest Volume 2007 : Issue 2689

Today's Topics: 

  Re: Best Kernel?                      [ "Kelly Clowers"  ]
  Re: Best Kernel?                      [ Jose Luis Rivas Contreras  ]
  Re: mySQL and 'testing'               [ ieb  ]
  Re: Web cam Philips 0471:032d not se  [ Florian Kulzer  ]
  qt3.3.8                               [ Hugo Vanwoerkom 

Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:39:41 -0700


From: "Kelly Clowers" <kelly.clowers@gmail.com>
To: "Debian Users" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Best Kernel?

Message-ID: <1840f6970710271039s6a0c91d6pb2aab91f42a53185@mail.gmail.com>
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On 10/27/07, Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com> wrote:

> I have an AMD Sempron 2800+ processor with 1 Gig of ram.  I am currently
> using the 2.6.22-2-486 kernel from Lenny.  I want to install a different
> kernel so I can get the full use of my 1 Gig of ram.  I was looking
> through the options and found the following:
>
> linux-image-2.6.22-2-686
> linux-image-2.6.22-2-686-bigmem
> linux-image-2.6.22-2-amd64
>
> First off, can I use the amd64 kernel with a Sempron processor?  I am
> not sure if it has support for 64 bit programs.  If not, of the other
> two, which would be the best option for me?

The cpuid program should be able to tell you if you have a 32 bit
Sempron or a 64 bit Sempron. Even if you have a Sempron64, I
am not sure if you can/should run a 64 bit kernel while using
Debian's i386 arch.



In any case, the the k7 kernel will be better than the 486.


Do you need help?X
> And, when I am ready to upgrade, do I just run an apt-get install
> linux-image-2.6.22-2-*?

Yes, but you may want to install the k7 meta-package, which
always depends on a recent k7 kernel, so you don't have to
manually update your kernel image. Just install linux-image-k7
and it will do the rest.




Cheers,


Kelly



Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:04:10 +0300


From: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude


Message-ID: <20071027180410.GA3768@think.homenet>
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On Sat, Oct 27, 2007 at 10:12:31AM -0700, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:01:02 -0700
> Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com> wrote:
>=20
> > I was just reading the forums at forums.debian.org and came across a=20
> > thread about apt-get and aptitude.  I just installed Debian this week=

=20

> > after moving over from Gentoo.  I have only been using the apt-get=20
> > method because that is all I ever saw mentioned.  But, I guess aptitude=

=20

> > is the preferred Debian method now.  Is there a safe way for me to star=

t=20

> > using aptitude instead of apt-get?  What is the best way for me to make=

=20

> > the switch?
>=20
> For new installs it is actually recommended to use aptitude. However,=20
> from following the recent apt-get vs aptitude threads, there doesn't=20
> seem to be any big difference between the two. So if you are=20
> comfortable with apt-get there is no need to switch.
Do you need more help?X

Unless you are running sid there are big differences between how apt-get=20
and aptitude are handling things (dependencies, recommends)


> One of the few advantages of aptitude that I have been regularly=20
> hearing is that it handles package uninstalls better. For example, it=20
> is better at apt-get when removing unused dependencies after removing=20
> a package.

It is better then apt-get as in apt-get can't do it at all ;) (except=20
newer versions).


=20


Regards,


Andrei


--=20


If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)



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Can we help you?X


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Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:47:18 +0200


From: Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.org>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: [solved] Re: ps2pdf resizes page size to wrong format

Message-ID: <20071027174718.GG14847@prunille.vinc17.org>
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Can't find what you're looking for?X

On 2007-10-26 18:50:15 +0200, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:

> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D256011

There's also:



  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D355757

Perhaps the bugs should be merged.



--=20


Vincent Lef=E8vre <vincent(at)vinc17.org> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Arenaire project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)



Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:04:34 -0600


From: Nate Duehr <nate@natetech.com>


To: Debian Users <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

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On Oct 27, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:


Don't know where to look next?X
> I was just reading the forums at forums.debian.org and came across a  
> thread about apt-get and aptitude.  I just installed Debian this  
> week after moving over from Gentoo.  I have only been using the apt- 
> get method because that is all I ever saw mentioned.  But, I guess  
> aptitude is the preferred Debian method now.  Is there a safe way  
> for me to start using aptitude instead of apt-get?  What is the best  
> way for me to make the switch?

The main difference is that aptitude in default configuration mode  
will track dependencies added for packages requested and if no package  
needs the dependency anymore, it can remove it.



apt-get isn't that smart.


--
Nate Duehr
nate@natetech.com


Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:18:39 -0400
From: Jose Luis Rivas Contreras <ghostbar38@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Cc: Debian Users <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Best Kernel?
Message-ID: <472380FF.1070703@gmail.com>
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Kelly Clowers wrote:

> The cpuid program should be able to tell you if you have a 32 bit
> Sempron or a 64 bit Sempron. Even if you have a Sempron64, I
> am not sure if you can/should run a 64 bit kernel while using
> Debian's i386 arch.


No, you need to use a complete 64bit userland for using amd64,
translation: You have to reinstall your machine.

>=20
> In any case, the the k7 kernel will be better than the 486.
>=20
>> And, when I am ready to upgrade, do I just run an apt-get install
>> linux-image-2.6.22-2-*?
>=20
> Yes, but you may want to install the k7 meta-package, which
> always depends on a recent k7 kernel, so you don't have to
> manually update your kernel image. Just install linux-image-k7
> and it will do the rest.


Well, if you have modules compiled against your actual kernel and in a
full-upgrade magically upgrades your kernel you're gonna live a
nightmare next time you reboot your machine. But if you don't build
specific modules to your kernel then go ahead :-).

Regards,
Jose Luis.
--=20

ghostbar on debian linux 'sid' 2.6.22 x86_64-SMP - #382503
Weblog: http://ghostbar.ath.cx/ - http://linuxtachira.org
http://debian.org.ve - irc.debian.org #debian-ve #debian-devel-es
San Crist=C3=B3bal, Venezuela. http://chaslug.org.ve GPG: 0xCACAB118


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Date:  27 Oct 2007 14:06:02 -0400
From: Haines Brown <brownh@hartford-hwp.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject:  Re: SMTP smart host authentication fails
Message-ID:  <877il8bfg5.fsf@teufel.hartford-hwp.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Doug, thanks for your comments. 

To access my ISP's new SSL smtp server, I was given a new server name:
smtp.hartford-hwp.com. But I find out this is only a shortcut to the
actual server, which I'm told is mymail.myregisteredsite.com. I
dutifully changed to that address, but when I try to send messages, I
get:

  host mymail.myregisteredsite.com [209.237.134.152]:
  553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
 
Tech support insists this error message means I'm not authenticating
with the server, but that's not what it sounds like.

To authenticate with the SMTP server, there seem to be four issues:

1. In /etc/exim4/passwd.client I inserted this line (where "<PW>" is
   my plain test password):

    mymail.myregisteredsite.com:hartford-hwp.com:<PW>

2. In exim4 configuration, I have to specify the smtp server. In
   /etc/exim4/update.exim.conf.conf I have the line:

    dc_smarthost='mymail.myregisteredsite.com'

3. I have not specified the authentication method. After speaking with
   my tech support supervisor's supervisor, all I could get was that
   the authentication method is "basic", "ordinary". Only later one
   person suggested that "basic" is really plain
   authentication. Assuming this is correct, I did not make any
   changes to the /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template file, which
   apparently defaults to the plain text authentication method. I have
   no trouble accessing the POP server.

4. I was told to open the port 587 for SMTP instead of 25 (no port
   change was needed to access the POP server). So in /etc/inetd.conf
   I tried both of these lines without success, and also commented the
   line (reverted to port 25):

    ssmtp		587/tcp		smtps		# SMTP over SSL
    smtp		587/tcp		smtps		# SMTP over SSL
 
   Which of these two lines has the right syntax?

I know that whenever I make changes to exim configuration or to the
inetd.conf file, I must restart. Will both of these commands do it
(I'm using debian Etch)? That is, does reconfiguring Exim also restart
inetd, and does restarting inetd also rescan Exim4 configuration? 

  # dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config
  # /usr/sbin/initd restart
   
--
        Haines Brown, KB1GRM

	 
        



Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:23:29 -0400
From: Jose Luis Rivas Contreras <ghostbar38@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Joomla
Message-ID: <47238221.6020902@gmail.com>
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Freddy Freeloader wrote:

> Does anyone here have any insight why Joomla has never made it as a
> Debian package?  I was looking at the Joomla site and did some research=

> on the relationship between Debian and Joomla.  I see that someone in
> late 2006 was packaging Joomla for Sid, but it doesn't appear in the
> Debian-maintained repositories anymore.   Anyone know why this was
> discontinued?  Are there political reasons it was dropped, or is it jus=

t

> lack of enough interest to make the project viable?
>=20
>=20


Well, I guess one of the main reasons is that stable is the suite used
by servers and the updates take a long time to get to stable at least
that this updates are security ones.

And at least me does prefer to install my owns CMS's...

Regards,
Jose Luis.
--=20

ghostbar on debian linux 'sid' 2.6.22 x86_64-SMP - #382503
Weblog: http://ghostbar.ath.cx/ - http://linuxtachira.org
http://debian.org.ve - irc.debian.org #debian-ve #debian-devel-es
San Crist=C3=B3bal, Venezuela. http://chaslug.org.ve GPG: 0xCACAB118


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Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:11:28 -0700
From: Freddy Freeloader <fredddy@cableone.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Cc: Debian User <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Joomla
Message-ID: <47237F50.2010400@cableone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Does anyone here have any insight why Joomla has never made it as a 
Debian package?  I was looking at the Joomla site and did some research 
on the relationship between Debian and Joomla.  I see that someone in 
late 2006 was packaging Joomla for Sid, but it doesn't appear in the 
Debian-maintained repositories anymore.   Anyone know why this was 
discontinued?  Are there political reasons it was dropped, or is it just 
lack of enough interest to make the project viable?



Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:39:12 -0700
From: "Kelly Clowers" <kelly.clowers@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Best Kernel?
Message-ID: <1840f6970710271139m1a5fd6b2x5efcd625c7cee8e0@mail.gmail.com>
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On 10/27/07, Jose Luis Rivas Contreras <ghostbar38@gmail.com> wrote:

> Kelly Clowers wrote:
> > The cpuid program should be able to tell you if you have a 32 bit
> > Sempron or a 64 bit Sempron. Even if you have a Sempron64, I
> > am not sure if you can/should run a 64 bit kernel while using
> > Debian's i386 arch.
>
> No, you need to use a complete 64bit userland for using amd64,
> translation: You have to reinstall your machine.


I thought that was the case, but I wasn't 100% sure.


> >
> > In any case, the the k7 kernel will be better than the 486.
> >
> >> And, when I am ready to upgrade, do I just run an apt-get install
> >> linux-image-2.6.22-2-*?
> >
> > Yes, but you may want to install the k7 meta-package, which
> > always depends on a recent k7 kernel, so you don't have to
> > manually update your kernel image. Just install linux-image-k7
> > and it will do the rest.
>
> Well, if you have modules compiled against your actual kernel and in a
> full-upgrade magically upgrades your kernel you're gonna live a
> nightmare next time you reboot your machine. But if you don't build
> specific modules to your kernel then go ahead :-).


Oh, well, yeah, if you have out-of-source modules, that will cause some
issues. I knew that, but didn't remember to mention it, because I don't
use those kind of modules myself. Thank for catching that.


Cheers,
Kelly


Confused? Frustrated?X

Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:14:29 +0300
From: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: SMTP smart host authentication fails
Message-ID: <20071027191429.GB3768@think.homenet>
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On Sat, Oct 27, 2007 at 02:06:02PM -0400, Haines Brown wrote:
=20

> 4. I was told to open the port 587 for SMTP instead of 25 (no port
>    change was needed to access the POP server). So in /etc/inetd.conf
>    I tried both of these lines without success, and also commented the
>    line (reverted to port 25):


Why would you need to open a port? Your exim is the client accessing the=20
server (smarthost) on port 587.


> I know that whenever I make changes to exim configuration or to the
> inetd.conf file, I must restart. Will both of these commands do it
> (I'm using debian Etch)? That is, does reconfiguring Exim also restart
> inetd, and does restarting inetd also rescan Exim4 configuration?=20
>=20
>   # dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config


Not sure if this restarts exim as well. To be 100% sure just do=20
'invoke-rc.d exim4 restart'

Regards,
Andrei
--=20
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)

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Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:48:22 +0100
From: Chris Lale <chrislale@untrammelled.co.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude
Message-ID: <47239606.8090507@untrammelled.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Nate Duehr wrote:

> 
> On Oct 27, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
> 
>> I was just reading the forums at forums.debian.org and came across a
>> thread about apt-get and aptitude.  I just installed Debian this week
>> after moving over from Gentoo.  I have only been using the apt-get
>> method because that is all I ever saw mentioned.  But, I guess
>> aptitude is the preferred Debian method now.  Is there a safe way for
>> me to start using aptitude instead of apt-get?  What is the best way
>> for me to make the switch?
> 
> 
> The main difference is that aptitude in default configuration mode will
> track dependencies added for packages requested and if no package needs
> the dependency anymore, it can remove it.
> 
> apt-get isn't that smart.
> 


If you use both aptitude and apt-get, read the NewbieDOC article about the magic
bullet[1] "aptitude keep-all".

[1]
http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitude_-_using_together_with_Synaptic_and_Apt-get

-- 
Chris.



Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:05:23 -0000
From: Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude
Message-ID: <1193515523.430672.238240@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Oct 27, 10:10 am, Jeff Grossman <j...@stikman.com> wrote:

> I was just reading the forums at forums.debian.org and came across a
> thread about apt-get and aptitude.  I just installed Debian this week
> after moving over from Gentoo.  I have only been using the apt-get
> method because that is all I ever saw mentioned.  But, I guess aptitude
> is the preferred Debian method now.  Is there a safe way for me to start
> using aptitude instead of apt-get?  What is the best way for me to make
> the switch?


Just switch.



Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:34:56 +0100
From: ieb <ieb@klokwurx.co.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Cc: Debian User List <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: mySQL and 'testing'
Message-Id: <1193517296.3659.12.camel@zeus.klokwurx.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

'Problem' has been solved.

The clue was in 'syslog'   .... it recorded that MySQl had been unable
to open the directory "/home/xxxx/xxxx/xxxx/Database" because it was too
full.

Now with a 500gig drive in this box and 250gig on my 'home' directory
and only 7% used it couldn't possibly be 'too full'.
On taking a look I spotted that somehow the directory (and all it's
siblings at that same level) were no longer made up of titles that began
with a single upper case and the rest in lower case .. but were all
upper case (viz --- Database was now DATABASE)
renamed it back to the original and reran the installation through
synaptic, ... and it ran flawlessly and my data is still intact.

I am being verbose in my explanation in case anyone else comes across a
similar issue.   
Why the directories at that level (seven of them) became renamed to all
upper case is the bigger mystery.... but as the original problem has
been 'cured' my plea for assistance has been fulfilled.  Thanks folks.
Ian 
 




On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 16:00, Mumia W.. wrote:

> On 10/27/2007 06:15 AM, ieb wrote:
> > [...]
> > E:mysql-server-5.0: sub-process post-installation script returned error
> > exit status 1
> > E: mysql server: dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
> > 

Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:01:04 +0200
From: Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@icfo.es>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Web cam Philips 0471:032d not seen
Message-ID: <20071027210103.GA9380@pc0197>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 09:38:37 +0200, Thierry Chatelet wrote:

> On Friday 26 October 2007 09:01, Kevin Mark wrote:
> > There is a table that lists the usb ids and tells what module to load.
> > So if this list is out-of-date, the kernel will not automatically load
> > the modeles. If I recall, 'update-usbids' might fix that issue. Also,
> > manufacturers sometimes change the chipset used in devices and thus one
> > unit may work while a later model may not. Sometimes you can tell by
> > looking at the version number of the device (version 2, model X,
> > revision C or something like that).
> > -K
> 
> I had update the usb list, so that is'nt the problem, and no, no such luck as 
> aving a big description on the device.
> Thank you all for your answers, but I guess I am going to resell it and buy an 
> other one.


I just had a quick look at the gspca sources that are available in Sid
(i.e. version 01.00.18-2). Your USB IDs are listed in gspca_core.c:

{USB_DEVICE(0x0471, 0x032d)},   /* Philips spc210nc*/

It seems to me that the device should be supported. Did you have
problems building the module from the newest sources?

-- 
Regards,            | http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer
          Florian   |



Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 17:54:50 -0400
From: Ralph Katz <ralph.katz@rcn.com>
To: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: gnome screensavers - can I get more?
Message-ID: <4723B3AA.1060803@rcn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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On 10/27/2007 12:37 PM, Martin Waller wrote:

> Martin Waller wrote:
>> Jose Luis Rivas Contreras wrote:
>>> Martin Waller wrote:
>>>  
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I don't seem to have a very wide variety of screensavers under gnome (5
>>>> basic ones).
>>>> 1) Are more available?
>>>> 2) From where?
>>>> 3) How do install them?
>>>>     
>>>

>> martin@papilio:~$ xscreensaver &
>> [2] 10481
>> [1]   Exit 127                xscrennsaver
>> martin@papilio:~$ Error: Cairo does not yet support the requested
>> image format:
>>        Depth: 16
>>        Alpha mask: 0x00000000
>>        Red   mask: 0x0000003f
>>        Green mask: 0x000007c0
>>        Blue  mask: 0x0000f800
>> Please file an enhacement request (quoting the above) at:
>> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=cairo
>> xscreensaver-demo:
>> /home/dajobe/dev/debian/cairo/cairo-1.2.4/src/cairo-image-surface.c:155:
>> _cairo_format_from_pixman_format: Assertion `NOT_REACHED' failed.
>> xscreensaver: 18:15:59: 0: child pid 0485 (xscreensaver-demo)
>> terminated with signal 6.
>>
>> X error in juggler3d:
>> X Error of failed request:  BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)
>>  Major opcode of failed request:  3 (X_GetWindowAttributes)
>>  Resource id in failed request:  0x3600093
>>  Serial number of failed request:  16
>>  Current serial number in output stream:  17
>>
>> errrr...
> 
> aah - I only get this error through a vnc connection (running
> vnc4server, etch package version 4.1.1+X4.3) - at the actual box it
> seems to work OK...?
>>
>> But thanks for the suggestion - just seems to have created a new
>> problem :)


xscreensaver works just fine on my wife's etch gnome desktop.  It 'just
works.'  gnome-screensaver is not installed.  Let me know if some part
of .xscreensaver or something else would be helpful to you.

Regards,
Ralph



Date:  Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:59:57 -0500
From: Hugo Vanwoerkom <hvw59601@care2.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject:  qt3.3.8
Message-ID: <fg0ccv$abi$1@ger.gmane.org>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding:  7bit

Hi,

Sid's libqt3-mt (3:3.3.7-9 and others) is at level 3.3.7.

TrollTech's latest qt3 level is 3.3.8.

Anybody found why libqt3-mt and others are not upgraded to 3.3.8?

I found surprising changes running the 3.3.8 version on XP.

Hugo



Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:12:53 -0700
From: Freddy Freeloader <fredddy@cableone.net>
To: Debian User <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Joomla
Message-ID: <4723C5F5.8040803@cableone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jose Luis Rivas Contreras wrote:

> Freddy Freeloader wrote:
>   
>> Does anyone here have any insight why Joomla has never made it as a
>> Debian package?  I was looking at the Joomla site and did some research
>> on the relationship between Debian and Joomla.  I see that someone in
>> late 2006 was packaging Joomla for Sid, but it doesn't appear in the
>> Debian-maintained repositories anymore.   Anyone know why this was
>> discontinued?  Are there political reasons it was dropped, or is it just
>> lack of enough interest to make the project viable?
>>
>>
>>     
>
> Well, I guess one of the main reasons is that stable is the suite used
> by servers and the updates take a long time to get to stable at least
> that this updates are security ones.
>
> And at least me does prefer to install my owns CMS's...
>
> Regards,
> Jose Luis.
>   

Well, that is one reason I guess.  Do you happen to know why security 
updates to Joomla would take any longer than security updates to any 
other Debian package in stable?  I'm just curious as Debian has Zope, 
Plone, Drupal, several wiki's, egroupware, and phpgroupware packages in 
stable.  What is so different about Joomla? 

I don't know anything about it other than I from what I read on their 
website today, but it seems to me that most GPL'ed software is in Debian 
so my curiosity has been piqued.  Joomla and webmin are two rather stark 
exceptions to the inclusiveness that I find in the Debian repositories, 
and I have read the reasoning behind why Debian dropped webmin. 

End of debian-user-digest Digest V2007 Issue #2689
**************************************************

Received on Sat Oct 27 19:40:47 2007
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