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debian-user-digest Digest V2007 #2729

From: <debian-user-digest-request(at)lists.debian.org>
Date: Fri Nov 02 2007 - 17:43:42 EDT


Content-Type: text/plain

debian-user-digest Digest Volume 2007 : Issue 2729

Today's Topics: 

  Re: GMT vs UTC                        [ Celejar  ]
  Re: how to reinstall?                 [ michael  ]
  Re: font change after kdm/xdm login   [ Florian Kulzer 

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:04:02 -0400


From: Celejar <celejar@gmail.com>


To: debian-user@lists.debian.org


Subject: Re: GMT vs UTC

Message-Id: <20071102150402.b546952e.celejar@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 19:58:30 +0100


Elimar Riesebieter <riesebie@lxtec.de> wrote:


> On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 the mental interface of
> Marcelo Chiapparini told:
> 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I am running etch. How can I know if the clock is set to GMT or UTC. 
> 
> $ date
> 
> > And
> > how can I switch from one to another?
> 
> $ date -u
> 
> $ man 1 date

We need to clarify the issue.  I understood (see my other message in
this thread) the OP to be asking about the hardware clock; you are
discussing the system clock.


Do you need help?X
> Elimar

Celejar

--
mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email
ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator


Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 19:06:10 +0000
From: michael <cs@networkingnewsletter.org.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: how to reinstall?
Message-Id: <39562485-D806-4327-9EE3-76598802D597@networkingnewsletter.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 2 Nov 2007, at 18:51, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:


> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 06:42:44PM +0000, michael wrote:

>>
>> On 2 Nov 2007, at 18:10, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 06:01:51PM +0000, michael wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> sorry to be thick but when I run the netinst CD it knows about the
>>>> current
>>>> partitions so if I just  hit 'finish partitioning and write  
>>>> changes to
>>>> disk' is that sufficient/right? surely it will either wipe all  
>>>> data off
>>>> disk (not what I want) or change nothing (perhaps not what I want
>>>> depending
>>>> if the remainder of the installation will effectively wipe  
>>>> current OS and
>>>> additional packages and replace with ONLY the raw netInst CD o/s)
>>>
>>> you can go into the partitioner and edit what it does with each
>>> partition: keep as is, ignore, reformat, whatever.
>>
>> ah, so the default is to leave data? so I just select 'erase data'  
>> for
>> those I want the data erasing?
>> ;)
>

> not sure on what the default is as I almost never install :)

>

> but yes, essentially, you can select what happens to each partition.

>

aha. you have to change "Use as" (from "do not use" to required  
filesystem) to get to the submenu which offers choices re keep/delete  
data!



Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:13:55 -0400
From: "Douglas A. Tutty" <dtutty@porchlight.ca>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: resolv.conf question
Message-ID: <20071102191355.GA8580@titan.hooton>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 11:42:04AM -0700, Raquel wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:10:25 -0400 "Douglas A. Tutty" <dtutty@porchlight.ca>
> > On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 08:48:06AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West
> > > On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 05:20:56PM -0600, Paul E Condon wrote:
> > > > I'm running Etch. My resolv.conf starts with the line:
> > > > 
> > > > # generated by NetworkManager, do not edit!
> > > > 
> > > > and contains entries that I want to have new different
> > > > values. I want to change the values in a way that last
> > > > through a reboot, and I'd like to do it by editting
> > > > a file using vim. What is the file that is the 
> > > > authoritative source of nameserver addresses?
> > > 
> > > I found this:
> > > http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManagerConfigurationSpecification
> > > 
> > > but couldn't tell from a quick read where those configs were
> > > supposed to go. Most of the way down the page it referes to DNS
> > > settings. 
> > > 
> > > I don't use NM, so I leave implementing it up to you ;)
> > 
> > Or, the OP could get rid of NM and perhaps install the resolvconf
> > package (that takes resolvconf hints from /etc/network/interfaces
> > and ppp).
> 
> Perhaps I didn't understand everything, but I decided I didn't need
> resolvconf.  I chose, instead, to use resolv.conf and to configure
> everything myself.


Its helpful if your method of connecting to the internet changes your
nameservers.  I'm on dialup so it changes on each dialing.  Its
especially helpful if sometimes you use ppp and othertimes eth0 or
something.

Doug.



Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:15:23 -0400
From: "Douglas A. Tutty" <dtutty@porchlight.ca>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: how to reinstall?
Message-ID: <20071102191523.GB8580@titan.hooton>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 06:49:10PM +0000, michael wrote:

> On 2 Nov 2007, at 18:29, Kevin Mark wrote:

 >

> >some of this is covered in the debian-reference
> 
> I've looked in http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ 
> index.en.html for help on customised partitioning but can't find  
> anything relevant - which section were you meaning? Thanks, Michael
> 


Debian-reference doesn't cover Etch.  Try the installation manual.

Doug.



Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:20:38 -0400
From: "Douglas A. Tutty" <dtutty@porchlight.ca>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: GMT vs UTC
Message-ID: <20071102192038.GC8580@titan.hooton>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 04:49:10PM -0300, Marcelo Chiapparini wrote:

> 
> I am running etch. How can I know if the clock is set to GMT or UTC. And
> how can I switch from one to another?
> 


Do you mean is your hardware clock set to GMT/UTC or localtime during
install?  Go to VT2 and type date.  If the time is correct for where
you're living, then its on local.  If the time would be correct for UTC
then its UTC.  If its not correct for either, you may want to reboot
into the BIOS and set the time to close to GMT.

Note that while there is a difference between GMT and UTC, mostly
computers are set to GMT.  The "M" is for Mean time which smooths over
leap seconds that occur in UTC due to the jitter of the earth's
rotation.  Check wikipedia for a more precise answer.  Note, however,
that its unlikely that you'll manage to keep your system clock, even
with ntpd, close enough to one or the other to notice the differnce
(which needs sub-second accuracy).  

Doug.



Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 19:31:01 +0000
From: Chris Lale <chrislale@untrammelled.co.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude
Message-ID: <472B7AF5.6020009@untrammelled.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Ken Irving wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:25:58AM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:

>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:09:07AM -0800, Ken Irving <fnkci@uaf.edu> was heard to say:
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 08:19:58PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
>>>>   No, I just come down hard on this meme because it seems to have taken
>>>> on a life of its own and I'd like to squash it before it grows up into a
>>>> full-blown urban legend.
>>> That sounds good, but is it different now than it used to be?  I haven't
>>> tried it lately, but it used to "seem" to want to remove lots of things.
>>> I'm aware of the workarounds (keep-all or whatever), have followed most
>>> of the threads (even instigated some...), but am still a command-line
>>> apt-get user waiting for a reason to change.  Two problems I have with
>>> aptitude are the lack of "source" functionality and my inability to spell
>>> it as easily as apt-get. ;-)
>>   There were bugs in some past versions.  As far as I know, the worst
>> ones (e.g., #411123) were fixed in etch.  There were some new bugs
>> introduced in unstable with the switchover to using apt to track unused
>> packages (where aptitude would even want to remove packages it had just
>> installed), but those should be fixed in 0.4.7.
>>
>>   There are a few corner cases in which aptitude will do the wrong
>> thing.
>>
>>   * Marking a package for removal in aptitude, exiting, removing it with
>>     apt-get, installing it again with apt-get, then running aptitude.
>>     aptitude will still remember that you want to remove the package.
>>
>>   * If you interrupt aptitude before it writes its state database, it
>>     will sometimes get confused about the system state, especially if
>>     you proceed to run apt-get before aptitude. (I can't remember the
>>     precise sequence of events that have to happen to trigger this off
>>     the top of my head)
>>
>>   Those are the only ways I can think of offhand to get aptitude to
>> remove packages you didn't ask it to.  Unfortunately, there's no
>> reliable way to tell if someone else has fiddled with a package
>> (#429438), so as long as aptitude tries to save and restore the current
>> state, there will be a few edge cases like this.
>>
>>   Anything I didn't list above is a bug that I don't know about.
>>
>>   Daniel

> 
> Thank you!  I just did an aptitude upgrade, and that old remove-everything
> problem is indeed gone, and no obscure workarounds needed.
> 
> FWIW, a "newubie doc" referenced earlier in this thread,
> 
>   http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitude_-_using_together_with_Synaptic_and_Apt-get
> 
> perpetuates this particular meme, linking back to an old thread based
> apparently on that bug.
> 
> Ken


NewbieDOC is a wiki, so you could easily change that and bring the document up
to date. :)

-- 
Chris.



Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 20:33:37 +0100 (CET)
From: Dominik =?iso-8859-2?Q?=A9=E8erba?= <dono@wz.sk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: 
Message-ID: <1454.91.127.100.97.1194032017.squirrel@webmail.wz.sk>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi!
I want to install Debian testing from HDD. I can't install it from CD/DVD
because my DVD-ROM isn't working properly.
For this unusual installing I need to download: 1. installation image 2.
files hd-media/initr.gz and hd-media/vmlinuz . I've downloaded the
installation medium to the root directory. But I can't find the right
version of files initr.gz and vmlinuz. I tried those files from the image=
,
but an installation process wasn't proper because it was finding the
installation image on CD-ROM. I tried some version of these files from
http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/lenny/main/installer-i386/current/=
/images/hd-media/
but the installator said: versions of kernel (in image and file, which
I've downloaded) aren't the same, so the installation process didn't work=
.
I was finding these files but I still can't install it from HDD.
I hope, somebody can help me.
Thanks...


Do you need more help?X

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:00:24 -0700
From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: how to reinstall?
Message-ID: <20071102200024.GK12370@localhost.localdomain>
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On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:06:10PM +0000, michael wrote:
>

> On 2 Nov 2007, at 18:51, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:


>> but yes, essentially, you can select what happens to each partition.
>>
>

> aha. you have to change "Use as" (from "do not use" to required filesyste=

m)=20

> to get to the submenu which offers choices re keep/delete data!

>

ding ding ding. That's it!

A

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Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 20:46:34 +0100
From: Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@icfo.es>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: intall nvidia driver on debian lenny
Message-ID: <20071102194634.GA20321@pc0197>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 18:52:51 +0200, Bogdan Marian wrote:

> Florian Kulzer wrote:


[...]

>> OK, it does load the Xorg driver for nvidia ("nvidia_drv.so" and/or
>> "nvidia_drv.o" located in /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/) but then it
>> cannot load the nvidia kernel module (nvidia.ko). 
>> First, check if the kernel module exists at all:
>>
>> find /lib/modules/2.6.22-2-686/ -name nvidia.ko

Maybe we have a misunderstanding here, so I will try to be clear: The
line above is a command that I want you to run ("find" is a utility to
search for files by name, date, owner, and other properties). I want to
see the output of this command because I need to know for sure that the
nvidia kernel module exists.

>> (I would expect that the file exists; the nvidia installer should have
>>  given you a clear error if it had not been able to create the module.)
>>
>> If the file exists, try to load it by running as root:
>>
>> modprobe -v nvidia

[...]


> This is what is gives me....btw, sorry for the late answer..:

>

> mydebian:/lib/modules/2.6.22-2-686# modprobe -v nvidia
> install /sbin/lrm-video nvidia
> sh: /sbin/lrm-video: No such file or directory
> FATAL: Error running install command for nvidia


Which non-Debian (Ubuntu?) packages did you install on your system? They
seem to have put something into /etc/modprobe.d which screws up the load
mechanism for the nvidia module. This would explain why the nvidia
script reported a successful installation and nevertheless the module
cannot be loaded.

To figure out what is going on, I need to see the output of the
following two commands:

grep nvidia /etc/modprobe.d/*

dpkg -S lrm-video

-- 
Regards,            | http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer
          Florian   |



Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:21:35 -0700
From: Raquel <raquel@thericehouse.net>
To: donovi@gmail.com
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re:
Message-Id: <20071102132135.21d23eb8.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 20:33:37 +0100 (CET)
Dominik __erba <dono@wz.sk> wrote:


> Hi!
> I want to install Debian testing from HDD. I can't install it from
> CD/DVD because my DVD-ROM isn't working properly.
> For this unusual installing I need to download: 1. installation
> image 2. files hd-media/initr.gz and hd-media/vmlinuz . I've
> downloaded the installation medium to the root directory. But I
> can't find the right version of files initr.gz and vmlinuz. I
> tried those files from the image, but an installation process
> wasn't proper because it was finding the installation image on
> CD-ROM. I tried some version of these files from
> http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/lenny/main/installer-i386/current//images/hd-media/
> but the installator said: versions of kernel (in image and file,
> which I've downloaded) aren't the same, so the installation
> process didn't work. I was finding these files but I still can't
> install it from HDD. I hope, somebody can help me.
> Thanks...
> 


Does your floppy drive work?  Could you get the floppy images and do
a net install?

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make
us love one another.
  --Jonathan Swift



Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 21:08:27 +0100
From: Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@icfo.es>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: font change after kdm/xdm login
Message-ID: <20071102200827.GA21807@pc0197>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 09:39:08 +0100, Lubos Vrbka wrote:

> hi guys,

>

> i am using enlightenment 0.16 as my window manager. up to now i was using 
> xdm as my login manager. recently, i tried to install and use kdm...

>

> then, fonts in several applications (e.g., psi, iceweasel, conky, ...) 
> differ when i log in using xdm (the fonts i am used to - optimized for my 
> desktop) and kdm (different fonts than i am used to, so they don't look 
> well and my desktop customization is gone). for me it seems that, e.g. 
> 'arial:size=8' used in psi after login with xdm, is a completely different 
> from arial:size=8 font used in psi after login with kdm.


Does it substitute a different font (family) or does it show the same
font rendered differently (larger/smaller, blurrier/more ragged, etc.)?


> could anybody shed some light in this, please? probably some kdm config 
> issue? is it somehow setting some environment variables that are changing 
> font handling/preference/...?


I would start by comparing the output of these commands for the two
situations:

xdpyinfo | grep resolution

xrdb -query | grep Xft

fc-list | grep -i arial

xlsfonts | grep arial

(The last one produces 162 lines of output on my system, so you might
 want to use diff.)

-- 
Regards,            | http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer
          Florian   |



Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 21:29:23 +0100
From: Elimar Riesebieter <riesebie@lxtec.de>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: GMT vs UTC
Message-ID: <20071102202923.GE8243@frodo.home.lxtec.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline

On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 the mental interface of
Celejar told:


> On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 19:58:30 +0100
> Elimar Riesebieter <riesebie@lxtec.de> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 the mental interface of
> > Marcelo Chiapparini told:
> > 
> > > Hi!
> > > 
> > > I am running etch. How can I know if the clock is set to GMT or UTC. 
> > 
> > $ date
> > 
> > > And
> > > how can I switch from one to another?
> > 
> > $ date -u
> > 
> > $ man 1 date
> 
> We need to clarify the issue.  I understood (see my other message in
> this thread) the OP to be asking about the hardware clock; you are
> discussing the system clock.


hwclock(8)

Elimar


-- 
  Obviously the human brain works like a computer.
  Since there are no stupid computers humans can't be stupid.
  There are just a few running with Windows or even CE ;-)



Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 16:33:27 -0400
From: "Douglas A. Tutty" <dtutty@porchlight.ca>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <20071102203327.GA9015@titan.hooton>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 01:21:35PM -0700, Raquel wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 20:33:37 +0100 (CET)
> Dominik __erba <dono@wz.sk> wrote:
> 
> > Hi!
> > I want to install Debian testing from HDD. I can't install it from
> > CD/DVD because my DVD-ROM isn't working properly.
> > For this unusual installing I need to download: 1. installation
> > image 2. files hd-media/initr.gz and hd-media/vmlinuz . I've
> > downloaded the installation medium to the root directory. But I
> > can't find the right version of files initr.gz and vmlinuz. I
> > tried those files from the image, but an installation process
> > wasn't proper because it was finding the installation image on
> > CD-ROM. I tried some version of these files from
> > http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/lenny/main/installer-i386/current//images/hd-media/
> > but the installator said: versions of kernel (in image and file,
> > which I've downloaded) aren't the same, so the installation
> > process didn't work. I was finding these files but I still can't
> > install it from HDD. I hope, somebody can help me.
> > Thanks...


The easiest way to get the images is to download the USB stick image,
then mount it loop and pull out what you need. So you end up needing
three files:  the kernel, an initrd.gz and an iso to put on the hard
drive for the installer to mount loop (which it will do automatically).

I'm assuming that you don't just have a USB stick which the box can
boot.

Doug.



Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:22:17 +0200
From: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Cc: Kevin Mark <kevin.mark@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: how to reinstall?
Message-ID: <20071102212217.GA24434@think.homenet>
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On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 02:29:29PM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:


>   -  do 'dpkg --set-selections < mypackages' for setting packages
>   -  do 'aptitude dselect-upgrade' to install all packages=20


I always just run 'aptitude install' for this. Where is the=20
'dselect-upgrade' action documented? A quick search through the man page=20
and the README didn't provide anything related.

Regards,
Andrei
--=20
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)

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Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 17:07:46 -0400
From: "Douglas A. Tutty" <dtutty@porchlight.ca>
To: donovi@gmail.com, debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: how to install Lenny with hard drive
Message-ID: <20071102210746.GB9213@titan.hooton>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 09:45:47PM +0100, Dominik ??erba wrote:

> > On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 01:21:35PM -0700, Raquel wrote:
> >> On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 20:33:37 +0100 (CET)
> >> Dominik __erba <dono@wz.sk> wrote:
> >> > I want to install Debian testing from HDD. I can't install it from
> >> > CD/DVD because my DVD-ROM isn't working properly.
> >> > For this unusual installing I need to download: 1. installation
> >> > image 2. files hd-media/initr.gz and hd-media/vmlinuz . I've
> >> > downloaded the installation medium to the root directory. But I
> >> > can't find the right version of files initr.gz and vmlinuz. I
> >> > tried those files from the image, but an installation process
> >> > wasn't proper because it was finding the installation image on
> >> > CD-ROM. I tried some version of these files from
> >> > http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/lenny/main/installer-i386/current//images/hd-media/
> >> > but the installator said: versions of kernel (in image and file,
> >> > which I've downloaded) aren't the same, so the installation
> >> > process didn't work. I was finding these files but I still can't
> >> > install it from HDD. I hope, somebody can help me.
> >> > Thanks...
> >
> > The easiest way to get the images is to download the USB stick image,
> > then mount it loop and pull out what you need. So you end up needing
> > three files:  the kernel, an initrd.gz and an iso to put on the hard
> > drive for the installer to mount loop (which it will do automatically).
> >
> > I'm assuming that you don't just have a USB stick which the box can
> > boot.
> >

> But which files I have to download to install Debian testing?
> 


Keep the comments to the list.  I've cc'ed this so it goes back there.

OK, I haven't run 'testing' since Etch went stable, but here goes:

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer

Then, since you want something other than a CD, use a daily-build, other
images, i386:

http://people.debian.org/~joeyh/d-i/images/daily/

hd-media

get MANIFEST and MD5SUMS

then you see what you need:

boot.img.gz is an image for a 250 MB USB stick
and there's the kernel (vmlinuz) and initrd.gz

now, go back to the debian-installer page and get yourself a daily-build
netinst.iso file to put on your hard drive or USB stick.  That would be
debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso and grab that MD5SUMS file too to verify
your download.

Don't forget to get a copy of the installation manual by following the
links on the debian-installer page.

Doug.


Can we help you?X

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:41:18 +0200
From: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude
Message-ID: <20071102214118.GB24434@think.homenet>
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On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 07:02:47PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 08:33:00PM -0000, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
> =20
> > So exercising an abundance of caution I usually stick with synaptic.
> > Maybe on my next install I'll look into Aptitude.

>=20

> What do you do when X dies or needs changing?


I did a lot of X upgrades with aptitude from an xterm and never had any=20
problem (and that's on unstable). I know it's not recommended, but it=20
usually works.

Regards,
Andrei
--=20
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)

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End of debian-user-digest Digest V2007 Issue #2729
**************************************************

Received on Fri Nov  2 17:43:59 2007

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