Content-Type: text/plain
debian-user-digest Digest Volume 2007 : Issue 2743
Today's Topics:
Re: Could not find nfs package [ hce ]
Re: bootsplash ramble [ Michael Biebl ]
How to check tftp server is running? [ hce ]
Re: How to check tftp server is runn [ Andrew Sackville-West ]
Re: Could not find nfs package [ Andrew Sackville-West ]
Re: hard disk device name change aft [ Andrew Sackville-West ]
Re: How to check tftp server is runn [ Jeff Grossman ]
Re: How to check tftp server is runn [ Jeff Grossman ]
multimedia driver support questions. [ Peter ]
Re: How to check tftp server is runn [ hce ]
Re: How to check tftp server is runn [ Jeff Grossman ]
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 14:17:10 +1100
From: hce <webmail.hce@gmail.com>
To: "Owen Townend" <bowbowbow@optushome.com.au>
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Could not find nfs package
Message-ID: <95455e980711041917s7c3a3a39pb10a986a8b4e0c0b@mail.gmail.com>
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On 11/5/07, Owen Townend <bowbowbow@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2007-11-05 at 11:49 +1100, hce wrote:
> > On 11/5/07, Owen Townend <bowbowbow@optushome.com.au> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2007-11-05 at 11:25 +1100, hce wrote:
> > > > Thanks Owen. To run nfs server, should I install both nfs-common and
> > > > nfs-user-server, or just nfs-common?
> > > >
> > > > Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > > On 11/5/07, Owen Townend <bowbowbow@optushome.com.au> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 2007-11-05 at 11:04 +1100, hce wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I got an error "E: Couldn't find package nfs" while trying to install
> > > > > > nfs server by calling "apt-get install nfs". Is the nfs wrong nfs
> > > > > > server package name?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Hey,
> > > > > Try `apt-cache search nfs`
> > > > > It should return the correct package names.
> > > > > One of these is probably what you're after:
> > > > >
> > > > > nfs-common - NFS support files common to client and server
> > > > > nfs-kernel-server - support for NFS kernel server
> > > > > nfs-user-server - User space NFS server
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > cheers,
> > > > > Owen.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hey,
> > > nfs-kernel-server depends on nfs-common but I don't believe the
> > > userspace server does. Running `apt-get install nfs-user-server` will
> > > tell you of the dependencies and resolve them if it can. You can also
> > > use `apt-cache depend nfs-user-server` to find out.
> >
> > Thanks Owen, I installed nfs-user-server and added /etc/exports. But,
> > could not find exportfs in /sbin or /usr/sbin, I thought the exportfs
> > is included in nfs server packet, seems I got wrong. I did "apt-cache
> > search exportfs", nothing happened?
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
>
> Interesting,
> I have the kernel server installed along with nfs-common and I
> have /usr/sbin/exportfs. Perhaps it comes with the common package.
> I don't have any experience with the userspace server, the kernel
> server is (by accounts/testimonials) faster & easier and I have physical
> & root access to my servers so it's not an issue. Any particular reason
> you're choosing the userspace server?
>
> cheers,
> Owen.
I've changed to kernel server, that works. I am from FC where
installation of packages are different to Debian.
Thank you Owen.
Jim
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 04:47:52 +0100
From: Michael Biebl <biebl@teco.edu>
To: Mark Grieveson <dg135@torfree.net>
Cc: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: bootsplash ramble
Message-ID: <472E9268.9020001@teco.edu>
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Mark Grieveson schrieb:
> I tried setting up bootsplash, on my Etch box, and have failed
> miserably. I installed it, and messed around with
> the /boot/grub/menu.lst file, adding "vga=3D791 splash=3Dsilent" to the=
> kernel line. It made the print smaller, but did not give me a nifty
> bootsplash. I then attempted to recompile my kernel, as instructed (a
> hell of a thing to have to do just to get a bootsplash, but, well,
> since I had started.....) =20
>=20
> Anyway, first using menuconfig, and then xconfig, I was unable to find
> any entry for "Console drivers". I did find some framebuffer stuff,
> but nothing about "Use splash screen instead of boot logo", as I was
> instructed to turn on. I did find something about turning on a penguin=
> during bootup (the "boot logo", maybe?). I checked that, just so that
> I could say to myself, "Well, at least I did SOMETHING". Now, hours
> later, I'm still waiting for the revised kernel to finish its stuff,
> via the command fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd --append-to-version=3D-cust=
om
> kernel_image kernel_headers.
>=20
> Yikes. Has anyone else succeeded with bootsplash?
Install splashy. No kernel patching necessary.
Michael
--=20
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?
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Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 14:59:25 +1100
From: hce <webmail.hce@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: How to check tftp server is running?
Message-ID: <95455e980711041959h7b253a63pa08c90042dbccc83@mail.gmail.com>
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Hi,
I've just installed tftp and tftpd package by apt-get. But, I could
not see the tftp server running. Actually, I could not figure out
where is the tftp script. In FC6, the tftp script is in xinit.d. In
Debian, there is not xinit.d.
How can I check whether the tftp server is running or not? And, if
not, which command I can call to run the tftp server?
Thank you.
Jim
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 20:23:09 -0800
From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: How to check tftp server is running?
Message-ID: <20071105042309.GC12370@localhost.localdomain>
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On Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 03:14:05PM +1100, hce wrote:
> On 11/5/07, Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com> wrote:
> > hce wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I've just installed tftp and tftpd package by apt-get. But, I could
> > > not see the tftp server running. Actually, I could not figure out
> > > where is the tftp script. In FC6, the tftp script is in xinit.d. In
> > > Debian, there is not xinit.d.
> > >
> > > How can I check whether the tftp server is running or not? And, if
> > > not, which command I can call to run the tftp server?
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > I don't think Debian uses xinetd by default. It puts everything in the
> > inetd.conf file. You can manually move the entries over to an xinetd f=
ile.
probably you should avoid inet.d and just start the service directly.
>=20
> Indeed, the tftp is in inetd.conf file. But, how can I
> run/restart/stop tftp server? Also, how can I check whether the tftp
> server is running or not? I checked ps and grep with in.tftpd, but
> could not find it.
in debian services are started with an init script stored in
/etc/init.d/ and linked to various runlevels in /etc/rc[S123456].d/
to start the service use either
/etc/init.d/<Service name> start=20
or
invoke-rc.d <Service name> start
to check the status of a service, look at ps -e (grepping as
appropriate) or check=20
invoke-rc.d <Service name> status
(or /etc/init.d/<Service name>)
personally, i like the /etc/init.d/ route as you get tab completion of
a service name, if you happen to not remember it exactly.
Many services won't actually start unless they are enabled in
/etc/default/<service name>, so if you start a service and it doesn't
seem to work, check there.
hth
A
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Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:06:20 -0800
From: Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com>
To: Debian Users <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: How to check tftp server is running?
Message-ID: <472E96BC.3030409@stikman.com>
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hce wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've just installed tftp and tftpd package by apt-get. But, I could
> not see the tftp server running. Actually, I could not figure out
> where is the tftp script. In FC6, the tftp script is in xinit.d. In
> Debian, there is not xinit.d.
>
> How can I check whether the tftp server is running or not? And, if
> not, which command I can call to run the tftp server?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
I don't think Debian uses xinetd by default. It puts everything in the
inetd.conf file. You can manually move the entries over to an xinetd file.
Jeff
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 20:23:53 -0800
From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Could not find nfs package
Message-ID: <20071105042352.GD12370@localhost.localdomain>
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On Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 02:17:10PM +1100, hce wrote:
> I am from FC where
> installation of packages are different to Debian.
>
welcome to the dark side....
A
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Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:53:46 -0600
From: John Hasler <jhasler@debian.org>
To: Debian Users <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Windows programs report 1 cpu, Debian and Ubuntu report 2
Message-ID: <87zlxtfiut.fsf@toncho.dhh.gt.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hyperthreading.
--
John Hasler
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 20:26:03 -0800
From: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: hard disk device name change after reboot
Message-ID: <20071105042603.GE12370@localhost.localdomain>
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On Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 10:26:52AM +0800, hhding.gnu wrote:
> It seems it works with some filesystem and do *NOT* work for swap
> partition. here as I show below, hde1 is swap partition and there are
> no label or uuid exists. as I know, tune2fs can add uuid or label for
> ext2/ext3 partitions. How can I add uuid or label for swap partition
> then?
>=20
sorry no help on swap.
> Another question is, can I add uuid as device name in grub's menu.lst?
> (something like kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.17-2-686 root=3D/dev/sde2 ro)
root=3Duuid=3D/dev/sde2, I think.
A
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Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:14:05 +1100
From: hce <webmail.hce@gmail.com>
To: "Jeff Grossman" <jeff@stikman.com>
Cc: "Debian Users" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: How to check tftp server is running?
Message-ID: <95455e980711042014l2e95d562x868a351069858bbd@mail.gmail.com>
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On 11/5/07, Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com> wrote:
> hce wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've just installed tftp and tftpd package by apt-get. But, I could
> > not see the tftp server running. Actually, I could not figure out
> > where is the tftp script. In FC6, the tftp script is in xinit.d. In
> > Debian, there is not xinit.d.
> >
> > How can I check whether the tftp server is running or not? And, if
> > not, which command I can call to run the tftp server?
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> I don't think Debian uses xinetd by default. It puts everything in the
> inetd.conf file. You can manually move the entries over to an xinetd file.
Indeed, the tftp is in inetd.conf file. But, how can I
run/restart/stop tftp server? Also, how can I check whether the tftp
server is running or not? I checked ps and grep with in.tftpd, but
could not find it.
Thank you Jeff.
Jim
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:28:58 -0800
From: Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com>
To: Debian Users <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: How to check tftp server is running?
Message-ID: <472E9C0A.2060503@stikman.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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hce wrote:
> On 11/5/07, Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com> wrote:
>
>> hce wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I've just installed tftp and tftpd package by apt-get. But, I could
>>> not see the tftp server running. Actually, I could not figure out
>>> where is the tftp script. In FC6, the tftp script is in xinit.d. In
>>> Debian, there is not xinit.d.
>>>
>>> How can I check whether the tftp server is running or not? And, if
>>> not, which command I can call to run the tftp server?
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I don't think Debian uses xinetd by default. It puts everything in the
>> inetd.conf file. You can manually move the entries over to an xinetd file.
>>
>
> Indeed, the tftp is in inetd.conf file. But, how can I
> run/restart/stop tftp server? Also, how can I check whether the tftp
> server is running or not? I checked ps and grep with in.tftpd, but
> could not find it.
>
> Thank you Jeff.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
Anything running from inetd is not running all of the time. Processes
that start from inetd only start when a connection from the outside hits
that port. There is no daemon program running when run form inetd. I
am not sure if tftpd is a daemon type server.
Jeff
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:31:33 -0800
From: Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com>
To: Debian Users <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: How to check tftp server is running?
Message-ID: <472E9CA5.2070100@stikman.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 03:14:05PM +1100, hce wrote:
>
>> On 11/5/07, Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com> wrote:
>>
>>> hce wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I've just installed tftp and tftpd package by apt-get. But, I could
>>>> not see the tftp server running. Actually, I could not figure out
>>>> where is the tftp script. In FC6, the tftp script is in xinit.d. In
>>>> Debian, there is not xinit.d.
>>>>
>>>> How can I check whether the tftp server is running or not? And, if
>>>> not, which command I can call to run the tftp server?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I don't think Debian uses xinetd by default. It puts everything in the
>>> inetd.conf file. You can manually move the entries over to an xinetd file.
>>>
>
> probably you should avoid inet.d and just start the service directly.
>
>
>> Indeed, the tftp is in inetd.conf file. But, how can I
>> run/restart/stop tftp server? Also, how can I check whether the tftp
>> server is running or not? I checked ps and grep with in.tftpd, but
>> could not find it.
>>
>
> in debian services are started with an init script stored in
> /etc/init.d/ and linked to various runlevels in /etc/rc[S123456].d/
>
> to start the service use either
>
> /etc/init.d/<Service name> start
>
> or
>
> invoke-rc.d <Service name> start
>
> to check the status of a service, look at ps -e (grepping as
> appropriate) or check
>
> invoke-rc.d <Service name> status
>
> (or /etc/init.d/<Service name>)
>
> personally, i like the /etc/init.d/ route as you get tab completion of
> a service name, if you happen to not remember it exactly.
>
> Many services won't actually start unless they are enabled in
> /etc/default/<service name>, so if you start a service and it doesn't
> seem to work, check there.
>
> hth
>
> A
>
I looked at the files listing in packages.debian.org for the tftpd
program. It does not install anything in /etc/init.d. I am not sure if
that program can run as a daemon.
Jeff
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 23:33:19 -0500
From: Peter <peter@bsqt.homeip.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: multimedia driver support questions...
Message-ID: <4442b4720711042033g64ba4195oadf2ffbebc7cf163@mail.gmail.com>
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running Debian Etch. I have an HP slimline 3120 (AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual
Core Processor 4200+)
with an MCP51 chipset providing HDA sound.
sound quibble:
-- when I plug my speakers into 'front' speaker jack (green in the pack)
I only get a mono signal, and output only on the right channel.
-- if I plug into the jack for these 2.1 speakers into the earphone jack,
and I get stereo. but the balance doesn't work.
Tuner card:
-- There is a tv tuner in the PCI slot. I think it is this thing (from
lspci -v)
02:09.0 Multimedia controller: Unknown device 1745:2100
Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 48a3
Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 11
Memory at fde00000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=1M]
Memory at fdbe0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K]
Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 2
Any idea how to get video4linux to recognize it, so that I can have mythtv
use it?
Multimedia card reader:
There is one on the front of the case, but I can see nothing in lspci
or lsusb which would indicate
what device this is. It doesn't work.
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<br>running Debian Etch. I have an HP slimline 3120 (AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+)<br>with an MCP51 chipset providing HDA sound.<br><br>sound quibble:<br> -- when I plug my speakers into 'front' speaker jack (green in the pack) I only get a mono signal, and output only on the right channel.
<br> -- if I plug into the jack for these 2.1 speakers into the earphone jack, and I get stereo. but the balance doesn't work.<br><br>Tuner card:<br> -- There is a tv tuner in the PCI slot. I think it is this thing (from lspci -v)
<br><br>02:09.0 Multimedia controller: Unknown device 1745:2100<br> Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 48a3<br> Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 11<br> Memory at fde00000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=1M]
<br> Memory at fdbe0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K]<br> Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 2<br><br><br>Any idea how to get video4linux to recognize it, so that I can have mythtv use it?<br>
<br><br>Multimedia card reader:<br> There is one on the front of the case, but I can see nothing in lspci or lsusb which would indicate<br>what device this is. It doesn't work.<br><br> <br>
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Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:37:05 +1100
From: hce <webmail.hce@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: How to check tftp server is running?
Message-ID: <95455e980711042037u75fc8b8yff5bfd32873b9886@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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On 11/5/07, Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 03:14:05PM +1100, hce wrote:
> > On 11/5/07, Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com> wrote:
> > > hce wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I've just installed tftp and tftpd package by apt-get. But, I could
> > > > not see the tftp server running. Actually, I could not figure out
> > > > where is the tftp script. In FC6, the tftp script is in xinit.d. In
> > > > Debian, there is not xinit.d.
> > > >
> > > > How can I check whether the tftp server is running or not? And, if
> > > > not, which command I can call to run the tftp server?
> > > >
> > > > Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I don't think Debian uses xinetd by default. It puts everything in the
> > > inetd.conf file. You can manually move the entries over to an xinetd file.
>
> probably you should avoid inet.d and just start the service directly.
>
> >
> > Indeed, the tftp is in inetd.conf file. But, how can I
> > run/restart/stop tftp server? Also, how can I check whether the tftp
> > server is running or not? I checked ps and grep with in.tftpd, but
> > could not find it.
>
> in debian services are started with an init script stored in
> /etc/init.d/ and linked to various runlevels in /etc/rc[S123456].d/
I've checked in /etc/init.d, there is no tftp, nor tftpd. I did
installed by "apt-get install tftp" and "apt-get install tftpd". Where
are those scripts? Or did I installed wrong tftp packages?
> to start the service use either
>
> /etc/init.d/<Service name> start
That is the same way in FC where service script can be
start/stop/restart. But, I could not find tftp or tftpd scripts.
> or
>
> invoke-rc.d <Service name> start
>
> to check the status of a service, look at ps -e (grepping as
> appropriate) or check
>
> invoke-rc.d <Service name> status
I've tried "/usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d tftpd status" with following error:
invoke-rc.d: unknown initscript, /etc/init.d/tftpd not found.
Thank you.
Jim
> (or /etc/init.d/<Service name>)
>
> personally, i like the /etc/init.d/ route as you get tab completion of
> a service name, if you happen to not remember it exactly.
>
> Many services won't actually start unless they are enabled in
> /etc/default/<service name>, so if you start a service and it doesn't
> seem to work, check there.
>
> hth
>
> A
>
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>
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:40:29 -0800
From: Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com>
To: Debian Users <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: How to check tftp server is running?
Message-ID: <472E9EBD.2040709@stikman.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hce wrote:
> On 11/5/07, Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 03:14:05PM +1100, hce wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/5/07, Jeff Grossman <jeff@stikman.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hce wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've just installed tftp and tftpd package by apt-get. But, I could
>>>>> not see the tftp server running. Actually, I could not figure out
>>>>> where is the tftp script. In FC6, the tftp script is in xinit.d. In
>>>>> Debian, there is not xinit.d.
>>>>>
>>>>> How can I check whether the tftp server is running or not? And, if
>>>>> not, which command I can call to run the tftp server?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I don't think Debian uses xinetd by default. It puts everything in the
>>>> inetd.conf file. You can manually move the entries over to an xinetd file.
>>>>
>> probably you should avoid inet.d and just start the service directly.
>>
>>
>>> Indeed, the tftp is in inetd.conf file. But, how can I
>>> run/restart/stop tftp server? Also, how can I check whether the tftp
>>> server is running or not? I checked ps and grep with in.tftpd, but
>>> could not find it.
>>>
>> in debian services are started with an init script stored in
>> /etc/init.d/ and linked to various runlevels in /etc/rc[S123456].d/
>>
>
> I've checked in /etc/init.d, there is no tftp, nor tftpd. I did
> installed by "apt-get install tftp" and "apt-get install tftpd". Where
> are those scripts? Or did I installed wrong tftp packages?
>
>
>> to start the service use either
>>
>> /etc/init.d/<Service name> start
>>
>
> That is the same way in FC where service script can be
> start/stop/restart. But, I could not find tftp or tftpd scripts.
>
>
>> or
>>
>> invoke-rc.d <Service name> start
>>
>> to check the status of a service, look at ps -e (grepping as
>> appropriate) or check
>>
>> invoke-rc.d <Service name> status
>>
>
> I've tried "/usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d tftpd status" with following error:
>
> invoke-rc.d: unknown initscript, /etc/init.d/tftpd not found.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Jim
>
>
>> (or /etc/init.d/<Service name>)
>>
>> personally, i like the /etc/init.d/ route as you get tab completion of
>> a service name, if you happen to not remember it exactly.
>>
>> Many services won't actually start unless they are enabled in
>> /etc/default/<service name>, so if you start a service and it doesn't
>> seem to work, check there.
>>
>> hth
>>
>> A
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>>
>> iD8DBQFHLpqtaIeIEqwil4YRAv5jAKDhJX+1uJRHeTo9dU2qdl0kHxPgDwCfe+og
>> 0fGDfnR+jZ69XP4wsMRNfQg=
>> =/Bah
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
It looks like there is a program called atftpd which allows running from
inetd or as a daemon. You might want to look into that program. I
always use http://packages.debian.org when researching packages. But,
that is just my preference.
Jeff
End of debian-user-digest Digest V2007 Issue #2743
**************************************************
Received on Mon Nov 5 00:07:03 2007