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Re: [GENERAL] Please change default characterset for database cluster
Date: Sat Sep 29 2007 - 23:55:00 EDT
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:32:43 -0400, "Carlos Moreno"
<moreno_pg@mochima.com> said:
> CN wrote:
> > Hi!
> > "initdb" use SQL_ASCII as the default characterset encoding when it is
> > not given option "-E" and when it can not correctly derive one from
> > locale. I suggest "initdb" use UNICODE instead of SQL_ASCII because
> > UNICODE is far more useful than SQL_ASCII.
> >
>
> In addition to the general comment that the world does not necessarily
> revolve around you, and that you should not expect all software products
> in the world to be customized to suit *your* needs, I have to highlight
> how horrifying this is:
>
> > Not all webmasters are willing to spend time reading "initdb"
> > documentation.
> This is truly horrifying --- well, fortunately, one could hope that it
> is as wrong as the rest of your message; that dumb and lazy end users
> and computer illiterate people are not willing to spend time reading
> documentation or instructions is ok... But webmasters and database
> administrators??? Do you *seriously* expect that some highly complex
> software like a DB server should be handled by people who are not
> willing to read documentation???? That's the most preposterous notion
> I've read in the last few months!
>
> Another detail to add --- for a lot of people, Unicode is a useless
> feature that has a very important performance hit. For a *very large*
> fraction of applications, I see it generally advised to use a database
> with no encoding (which SQL_ASCII essentially is), and in the situations
> where some locale-aware processing is needed, then the client
> application can do it.
>
> Of course, there are also many many applications where a DB with
> Unicode encoding is very useful. In those cases, the administrators
> can create a database with Unicode encoding (you seem to be one of
> those that are too busy to be willing to spend time reading the
> documentation of *createdb*), regardless of what default encoding was
> specified with initdb.
>
> Oh, and BTW, welcome to version 8 of PostgreSQL ... The default
> encoding for initdb is ..... Ta-daaaa!!! Unicode !!!
>
> Carlos
Various people have various perceptions. I don't feel that my suggestion only serves to make PostgreSQL become a software product fitting only *myself*. On the contrary, I believe PostgreSQL will become suitable for more novice users if initdb will use UNICODE as the default characterset when it is not given option "-E" and when it can not correctly derive a characterset from locale.
As I stated, not all webmasters or DBA's are advanced software administrators. I wonder there are many many webmasters and DBA's in the world try to setup their web sites and only use a mouse but never use their keyboards and read manuals. And I wonder this is one of the reasons making MyZql so popular - so much popular than PostgreSQL although it is far less powerful and has much less features than the latter. I have been using PostgreSQL since 6.5.x. I chose it because I noticed that PostgresSQL was the only open source DBMS that supports subquery and user defined functions that time. But how come MyZql becomes more popular than PostgreSQL today? I have my own answers to this:
- "MyZql" is easier to pronounce and remember than "PostgreSQL".
- MyZql rolled out MyZql.exe earlier than PostgreSQL.
Answer 1 is a very important reason but I don't intend to talk about it here. I believe MyZql's success in terms of market share is largely contributed by its Windowz product. Why? Becasue many (and perhaps most) people started their businesses by using a mouse. They are obviously not advanced DBA nor experts at the begining. However, they felt they successfully got their jobs done only with a mouse!
I feel PostgreSQL can also consider this marketing strategy:
As it has always been providing andvanced features for andvanced users, but also first help novices, who knows only how to use a mouse, get their jobs done.
Yes, UNICODE results in poorer performance than SQL_ASCII. However, this is not a problem at all because advanced users will use "-E" when they only needs SQL_ASCII. On the contrary, novices who actually needs UNICODE but get SQL_ASCII after PostgreSQL installation usually walk away and embrace MyZql which appears to be able to always help them setup their first web site with a few mouse clicks and with all the default values prompted by MyZql-install.exe.
As in my unhappy experience, the webmaster must have used initdb without "-E" option to initialized his database cluster. He also used a cPanel which does not provide "-E" option for createdb. I posted a request to that site asking for providing "-E" option for createdb by his cPanel. That webmaster said that he can not program cPanel. Another user replied me by asking: "What don't you simply use MyZql?". The net result is that I left his site and reduced the total number of PostgreSQL users from his site.
Regards,
CN
-- http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not matchReceived on Sat Sep 29 23:58:26 2007
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